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You can't compare NYC and Philly and their surrounding neighbors. The only reason places like Hoboken and Jersey City took off were because there was an overwhelming demand for real estate in NYC and people got priced out. So people started venturing out into other convenient places like Hoboken and JC.
The same effect is never going to happen to Camden. Philly is a blue collar, generally inexpensive, working class city. I have a friend that used to live in a brownstone in downtown Philly and was paying around $1500/month for a 1BR. That's about 1/2 of what you would pay for something similar in NYC. The point is, people don't need to venture out to Camden because Philly itself is so affordable, and I don't see that changing even if they attract new jobs. To take it a step further, Camden is bad. Like really bad. One of the worst cities in all of America. Hoboken and JC were not nearly that bad when they began to gentrify. At least they started out as livable places. You can't say the same for Camden, and likely never will.
Yes, Philly is more affordable than NYC. Yes, there is much more room for Philly to expand and infill housing that NYC was not capable of doing. However, how far out are those people really willing to go in neighborhoods that don't have rail access to CC? Eventually Camden's proximity will play a factor. Philly well never get to NYC prices, but as the prices climb, Camden can only benefit. Camden cannot be hurt by Philly becoming more expensive.
Also, Philly is blue collar and inexpensive. But that's the past. The future of Philly is quite white collar and upscale. Just look at the real estate projects being built all over the city.
I don't think Camden will ever be on the level of Hoboken or JC, but it will improve. Hoboken always had the bones that Camden has lost. Hoboken was pretty bad for a while. JC still has some very rough neighborhoods. They may not look as bad as parts of Camden, but some parts of JC are quite dangerous still, and were even worse before.
This is nothing more than a case of "Where you stand depends on where you sit." We love our house, we love the township that we live in, and we love the schools our children attend, so we don't complain. If you don't feel the same way about where you're living (no matter where that may be in NJ or elsewhere) you're going to feel differently.
I feel the same way as you do with regards to where I live. I've moved around a bit as an adult so I've always looked forward to a new scene and fortunately for me my wife, originally from NJ, is happy to check out future opportunities now that I'm retired.
Makes for good road trips.
Like you, I can afford it and then some but as time goes on it seems like NJ's lower middle class and working class has to lower their expectations or move. Similar to CA and IL.
Many can't have the life they want so they leave, some reluctantly I would imagine.
I wonder how many couples with children are dual incomers because they have to be in order to own a home on a small piece of property in a modest area. Not a well-to-do area.
Like you, I can afford it and then some but as time goes on it seems like NJ's lower middle class and working class has to lower their expectations or move. Many can't have the life they want so they leave, some reluctantly I would imagine.
You left out a third option: Educate/train yourself and aspire to a better career and a higher salary. If you can't live the life you want here on the salary you want, get a better job. I graduated from college with a BA 12 years ago and am only really hitting my stride income-wise now, and that was due in large part to going back for a Masters four years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1
I wonder how many couples with children are dual incomers because they have to be in order to own a home on a small piece of property in a modest area. Not a well-to-do area.
That's life-you can't have it all. If you want to wife (or husband) to stay home with the kids do the math on income vs. what you save on childcare and if the math works in your current household budget, great, if not, you have to downsize. I think the idea that a one-income household should be automatically entitled to a certain standard of living is not unlike the concept of a $15 minimum wage.
You left out a third option: Educate/train yourself and aspire to a better career and a higher salary. If you can't live the life you want here on the salary you want, get a better job.
+1
What's that old saying?
Something about, lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness?
And, before older people impulsively decide to move to a state that they think is a low-tax state for retirees, it behooves them to do some research into that issue. Kiplinger's magazine recently studied this issue, and... surprise, surprise... NJ is not the "tax hell" for retirees that many people seem to think it is.
In reality, NJ is in the middle-of-the-pack, between the high-tax states and the low-tax states.
One of the big surprises from their study--at least for me--is that people who move from NJ to North Carolina in the belief that they will have a lower tax bill are… wrong... big time.
+1
What's that old saying?
Something about, lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness?
And, before older people impulsively decide to move to a state that they think is a low-tax state for retirees, it behooves them to do some research into that issue. Kiplinger's magazine recently studied this issue, and... surprise, surprise... NJ is not the "tax hell" for retirees that many people seem to think it is.
In reality, NJ is in the middle-of-the-pack, between the high-tax states and the low-tax states.
One of the big surprises from their study--at least for me--is that people who move from NJ to North Carolina in the belief that they will have a lower tax bill are… wrong... big time.
Agree. And when I moved back here to retire, I used Kiplinger as a major (and reliable) source of info. That said, it's a lot easier, tax wise, if you don't own property (like me), but it's still not the tax hell for retirees people make it out to be. Getting half off for transit is nice, too.
Agree. And when I moved back here to retire, I used Kiplinger as a major (and reliable) source of info. That said, it's a lot easier, tax wise, if you don't own property (like me), but it's still not the tax hell for retirees people make it out to be. Getting half off for transit is nice, too.
The Murphy Administration has already reduced the income tax "bite" on pension benefits, and that tax is scheduled to be reduced to ZERO over the next couple of years.
I'm quite sure that some members of this forum will... somehow... try to spin that reality into a negative, but the fact remains that NJ is not currently a "tax hell" for retirees, and it will move even further from that category over the next couple of years.
The Murphy Administration has already reduced the income tax "bite" on pension benefits, and that tax is scheduled to be reduced to ZERO over the next couple of years.
I'm quite sure that some members of this forum will... somehow... try to spin that reality into a negative, but the fact remains that NJ is not currently a "tax hell" for retirees, and it will move even further from that category over the next couple of years.
The Murphy Administration has already reduced the income tax "bite" on pension benefits, and that tax is scheduled to be reduced to ZERO over the next couple of years.
I'm quite sure that some members of this forum will... somehow... try to spin that reality into a negative, but the fact remains that NJ is not currently a "tax hell" for retirees, and it will move even further from that category over the next couple of years.
The fact still remains the property tax is too high. If I am retired today, I sould move to a no tax, low property tax state.
You left out a third option: Educate/train yourself and aspire to a better career and a higher salary. If you can't live the life you want here on the salary you want, get a better job. I graduated from college with a BA 12 years ago and am only really hitting my stride income-wise now, and that was due in large part to going back for a Masters four years ago.
That's life-you can't have it all. If you want to wife (or husband) to stay home with the kids do the math on income vs. what you save on childcare and if the math works in your current household budget, great, if not, you have to downsize. I think the idea that a one-income household should be automatically entitled to a certain standard of living is not unlike the concept of a $15 minimum wage.
Agree with all of your points.
I too believe in relying on one's own ambitions and boot straps to get ahead.
It seems that many in NJ desire political solutions to what I consider personal responsibilities (not entitlements - not a fan of that word as it's commonly used today).
Agree. And when I moved back here to retire, I used Kiplinger as a major (and reliable) source of info. That said, it's a lot easier, tax wise, if you don't own property (like me), but it's still not the tax hell for retirees people make it out to be. Getting half off for transit is nice, too.
Don't you live in subsidized housing and want to attend school full time?
It stands to reason that your view on NJ's taxation and redistribution schemes may differ from say, a brick layer married to a secretary with two kids, in a non-Abbott school district for example.
I'm not saying you're view is wrong, right or whatever but there are many diverse views with regards to NJ's taxes and the way the money's shuffled around.
Last edited by doc1; 01-18-2019 at 06:50 AM..
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