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Old 01-18-2019, 02:29 PM
46H
 
1,128 posts, read 717,845 times
Reputation: 2356

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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrocytoma View Post
The teacher's union/pensions.... as well as the tyranny of the majority (dems).... is what screwed NJ over.

Now murphy wants to make NJ into CA (which has similar problems like NJ but 100x worse) with his identity politics/progressive garbageChristie did what he could... compromising with the tyrants as much as possible.

If both parties are screwing NJ over... what is the direction we go in?

What specific steps need to be taken?

I had high hopes for Rep Gottheimer (D-NJ5) ... because he seemed to be practical & Centrist... and he turned out to be a standard liberal nutjob who opposes a wall (.001% of the fed budget/works decently/not immoral).

Gottheimer represents a dist which has been historically Republican for decades, and took a chance on him because he is young & fresh. (they also voted for Trump the same night).



Trump said over 200 times the wall was going to cost zero because Mexico is going to pay for it. When Mexico 'cuts the check', Trump can build the wall.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Earth
5,788 posts, read 3,763,239 times
Reputation: 4348
still waiting for that beautiful infrastructure
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:42 PM
 
16,431 posts, read 6,338,948 times
Reputation: 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrocytoma View Post
The teacher's union/pensions.... as well as the tyranny of the majority (dems).... is what screwed NJ over.

Now murphy wants to make NJ into CA (which has similar problems like NJ but 100x worse) with his identity politics/progressive garbageChristie did what he could... compromising with the tyrants as much as possible.

If both parties are screwing NJ over... what is the direction we go in?

What specific steps need to be taken?

I had high hopes for Rep Gottheimer (D-NJ5) ... because he seemed to be practical & Centrist... and he turned out to be a standard liberal nutjob who opposes a wall (.001% of the fed budget/works decently/not immoral).

Gottheimer represents a dist which has been historically Republican for decades, and took a chance on him because he is young & fresh. (they also voted for Trump the same night).
LOL, whenever a someone wants to complain but knows nothing they blame the Teachers Union or the Police Union or the Fire Unions or the Federal Unions .

..........and why is that becuase they actually want what was openly negotiated for them at the "bargaining table by the responsible party's" during the collective bargaining process.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:47 AM
 
15,419 posts, read 15,922,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
LOL, whenever a someone wants to complain but knows nothing they blame the Teachers Union or the Police Union or the Fire Unions or the Federal Unions .

..........and why is that becuase they actually want what was openly negotiated for them at the "bargaining table by the IRresponsible party's" during the collective bargaining process.
Fixed.
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:08 AM
 
383 posts, read 221,965 times
Reputation: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
..........and why is that becuase they actually want what was openly negotiated for them at the "bargaining table by the responsible party's" during the collective bargaining process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
Fixed.
You're both completely missing the fact that the real problem is New Jersey's OBSESSION with infinitesimally small school districts, police departments, fire districts/fire companies, and the unnecessary, duplicative, and redundant administrative overhead that comes with each and every one. The solution, consolidation into 21 county school districts, police jurisdictions, and fire districts is literally child's play in terms of actual logistics and implementation. There's only one thing standing in the way: the irrational and myopic emotions of the very taxpayers who rail at the taxes that their obsession with fragmented and parochial schools and public safety agencies creates.

TAXPAYER: "My taxes are TOO HIGH!!! Who is responsible for this!? I want lower taxes!!!"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, no problem, all we need to do is consolidate all of the school districts, police departments, and fire departments in the county."

TAXPAYER: "WHAT!? NOT MY SCHOOL DISTRICT!!! CLASS SIZES WILL BE TOO HIGH!! RESPONSE TIMES WILL BE TOO LONG!!! I DON'T WANT MY KIDS IN THE SAME DISTRICT AS THOSE KIDS!!! I LIKE MY LITTLE MAYBERRY POLICE DEPARTMENT!!! MY HOUSE WILL BURN TO THE GROUND!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, forget we said anything-carry on."

TAXPAYER: "MY TAXES ARE TOOOOOOOOOO HIGH!!!"
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:57 AM
 
232 posts, read 184,507 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee View Post
You're both completely missing the fact that the real problem is New Jersey's OBSESSION with infinitesimally small school districts, police departments, fire districts/fire companies, and the unnecessary, duplicative, and redundant administrative overhead that comes with each and every one. The solution, consolidation into 21 county school districts, police jurisdictions, and fire districts is literally child's play in terms of actual logistics and implementation. There's only one thing standing in the way: the irrational and myopic emotions of the very taxpayers who rail at the taxes that their obsession with fragmented and parochial schools and public safety agencies creates.

TAXPAYER: "My taxes are TOO HIGH!!! Who is responsible for this!? I want lower taxes!!!"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, no problem, all we need to do is consolidate all of the school districts, police departments, and fire departments in the county."

TAXPAYER: "WHAT!? NOT MY SCHOOL DISTRICT!!! CLASS SIZES WILL BE TOO HIGH!! RESPONSE TIMES WILL BE TOO LONG!!! I DON'T WANT MY KIDS IN THE SAME DISTRICT AS THOSE KIDS!!! I LIKE MY LITTLE MAYBERRY POLICE DEPARTMENT!!! MY HOUSE WILL BURN TO THE GROUND!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, forget we said anything-carry on."

TAXPAYER: "MY TAXES ARE TOOOOOOOOOO HIGH!!!"
Swamp_Yankee get into core of problem without downsizing discussion about lower taxes is just never ending talk.
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Old 01-19-2019, 11:56 AM
 
15,419 posts, read 15,922,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee View Post
You're both completely missing the fact that the real problem is New Jersey's OBSESSION with infinitesimally small school districts, police departments, fire districts/fire companies, and the unnecessary, duplicative, and redundant administrative overhead that comes with each and every one. The solution, consolidation into 21 county school districts, police jurisdictions, and fire districts is literally child's play in terms of actual logistics and implementation. There's only one thing standing in the way: the irrational and myopic emotions of the very taxpayers who rail at the taxes that their obsession with fragmented and parochial schools and public safety agencies creates.

TAXPAYER: "My taxes are TOO HIGH!!! Who is responsible for this!? I want lower taxes!!!"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, no problem, all we need to do is consolidate all of the school districts, police departments, and fire departments in the county."

TAXPAYER: "WHAT!? NOT MY SCHOOL DISTRICT!!! CLASS SIZES WILL BE TOO HIGH!! RESPONSE TIMES WILL BE TOO LONG!!! I DON'T WANT MY KIDS IN THE SAME DISTRICT AS THOSE KIDS!!! I LIKE MY LITTLE MAYBERRY POLICE DEPARTMENT!!! MY HOUSE WILL BURN TO THE GROUND!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, forget we said anything-carry on."

TAXPAYER: "MY TAXES ARE TOOOOOOOOOO HIGH!!!"
I'd love to see countywide administration along with force reductions but I can't ever see that happening.

The so-called "fears" associated with consolidation are completely irrational, as you stated.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:48 PM
 
16,431 posts, read 6,338,948 times
Reputation: 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee View Post
You're both completely missing the fact that the real problem is New Jersey's OBSESSION with infinitesimally small school districts, police departments, fire districts/fire companies, and the unnecessary, duplicative, and redundant administrative overhead that comes with each and every one. The solution, consolidation into 21 county school districts, police jurisdictions, and fire districts is literally child's play in terms of actual logistics and implementation. There's only one thing standing in the way: the irrational and myopic emotions of the very taxpayers who rail at the taxes that their obsession with fragmented and parochial schools and public safety agencies creates.

TAXPAYER: "My taxes are TOO HIGH!!! Who is responsible for this!? I want lower taxes!!!"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, no problem, all we need to do is consolidate all of the school districts, police departments, and fire departments in the county."

TAXPAYER: "WHAT!? NOT MY SCHOOL DISTRICT!!! CLASS SIZES WILL BE TOO HIGH!! RESPONSE TIMES WILL BE TOO LONG!!! I DON'T WANT MY KIDS IN THE SAME DISTRICT AS THOSE KIDS!!! I LIKE MY LITTLE MAYBERRY POLICE DEPARTMENT!!! MY HOUSE WILL BURN TO THE GROUND!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, forget we said anything-carry on."

TAXPAYER: "MY TAXES ARE TOOOOOOOOOO HIGH!!!"
LOL, yup the old...............

I want good schools but Teachers make too much money, I want to be safe and protected but Police ,Fire and EMS make too much money .


DAMN which ever party is in Office!
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Old 01-19-2019, 08:36 PM
 
383 posts, read 221,965 times
Reputation: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
I'd love to see countywide administration along with force reductions but I can't ever see that happening.
The reason you can't ever see it happening is because of:

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
The so-called "fears" associated with consolidation are completely irrational, as you stated.
The biggest myth going is that politicians, teachers, municipal workers, police officers, and firefighters are the opponents of consolidation. In reality, the only opponents of consolidation are the very people who are constantly screaming about high taxes. Think about it-if a School Board President or local Mayor starts talking about consolidation with another district or town, who is he or she worried about upsetting, employees or voters? The voters, of course. In the case of municipalities and school boards, some employees might live in the respective town or district, but whatever that number is, it pales in comparison to the total number of voters. The employees have almost no influence, whereas the rest of the voters have total influence, and they are the ones who will march in legion to the polls to defeat any ballot measure to dissolve their little fiefdom, no matter what it costs them in property taxes.
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
28,494 posts, read 44,931,644 times
Reputation: 8796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee View Post
You're both completely missing the fact that the real problem is New Jersey's OBSESSION with infinitesimally small school districts, police departments, fire districts/fire companies, and the unnecessary, duplicative, and redundant administrative overhead that comes with each and every one. The solution, consolidation into 21 county school districts, police jurisdictions, and fire districts is literally child's play in terms of actual logistics and implementation. There's only one thing standing in the way: the irrational and myopic emotions of the very taxpayers who rail at the taxes that their obsession with fragmented and parochial schools and public safety agencies creates.

TAXPAYER: "My taxes are TOO HIGH!!! Who is responsible for this!? I want lower taxes!!!"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, no problem, all we need to do is consolidate all of the school districts, police departments, and fire departments in the county."

TAXPAYER: "WHAT!? NOT MY SCHOOL DISTRICT!!! CLASS SIZES WILL BE TOO HIGH!! RESPONSE TIMES WILL BE TOO LONG!!! I DON'T WANT MY KIDS IN THE SAME DISTRICT AS THOSE KIDS!!! I LIKE MY LITTLE MAYBERRY POLICE DEPARTMENT!!! MY HOUSE WILL BURN TO THE GROUND!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?"

LEGISLATOR: "OK, forget we said anything-carry on."

TAXPAYER: "MY TAXES ARE TOOOOOOOOOO HIGH!!!"
Except that bigger is NEVER better. Bigger school districts does not provide a better education for students. There is less accountability. That is why New Jersey schools and those in the northeast are so highly regarded. Same goes for police and fire protection. Or zoning and development decisions. Do you really want those decisions made in some city faraway? I doubt it. Jay
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