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Old 01-21-2019, 11:39 AM
8,256 posts, read 15,014,388 times
Reputation: 5972


Originally Posted by JayCT View Post
Except that bigger is NEVER better. Bigger school districts does not provide a better education for students. There is less accountability. That is why New Jersey schools and those in the northeast are so highly regarded. Same goes for police and fire protection. Or zoning and development decisions. Do you really want those decisions made in some city faraway? I doubt it. Jay
That's exactly the point though. You can't have extremely low taxes + tons of tiny school districts that pay teachers well and produce highly educated students. I don't think everything needs to be county level, but consolidating districts needs to be simpler, and especially un-consolidating them. I work in education. Many districts think consolidation would be good, but if it turns out bad, the people know they're stuck with that bad consolidated district forever. It's nearly impossible to remove your town from one after it's consolidated.

But, larger districts and emergency services are more financially beneficial. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either suck it up and deal with high taxes, or pay lower taxes to be involved in a consolidated government of some sorts.
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:43 AM
8,256 posts, read 15,014,388 times
Reputation: 5972
Originally Posted by astrocytoma View Post
#1) Ronil Singh died. Kate Stieinle Died. More Americans are dying from illegal drugs than ever before in US history. Death is real. Enough with the Democrat BS talking points.

#2) All time low? Wow thank you democrats for building that damn fence in areas like SD. So just because border crossings are low (which they are not... they have been on the rise since Oct 2018)... security does not matter?

Democrats didn't offerrrr ****ttttt. This is another bul****ttt media talking point.

Trump just said he offered protection to dreamers/TPS.
But the media won't let him get away with pretending this is permanent. They look at the details. In reality its just a 3 year temporary relief

in the same way Democrats offered $25B over 10 years with $2.5B the first year to only be used to repair fences/get tech. For the remaining 9 years there needs to be a Senate vote (60) to release the funds (aka no wall). Same time Dems wanted citizenship for 1.8M illegal parasites.

Do you call that that giving him a wall?

Enough of this nonsense.

Get over damn Trump hatred, and come back to reality.

ICE/E Verify/Visa Overstay Tracking

Merit based immigration (tech is replacing blue collar jobs. We do not need zero education, no english, and low skilled people anymore).

This is the path forwards

But dems oppose Everything I said above expect Tech. They want an illegal alien paradise they keep giving amnesty to ... destroying this country... while they get permanent power.
This really isn't the place for Trump and national political debates. However, it does seem that you sound like you're quite full of hate so I have two comments.

1) You still have never addressed the fact that Trump told us Mexico was paying for the wall. Why should MY taxes go to something he promised the American people were never going to pay for it? Either he lied, he duped you all, he doesn't care, he's a terrible negotiator, or a combo of all of them.

2) If you hate it here so much, why don't you just leave, snowflake?
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:52 PM
15,881 posts, read 16,019,785 times
Reputation: 9569
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee View Post
It appears that you live in Connecticut, but in NJ, municipalities are almost always the smallest chunk of the tax bill. Our Township is only 11% of the overall bill (municipality, county, local K-8 district, and regional high school district) which is exceptionally low because we have almost no services, but most municipalities are around 20-30% of the bill whereas most school districts comprise 50% or more.

Full disclosure-my wife is a public school teacher. School is what you and your child make of it-she has bright students with engaged parents who care about their kids' education and are involved in their lives and she has bad students whose parents are absent and/or otherwise un-involved in their lives and education. Guess which ones do better in the long run? For all of the crowing that NJ may do about the greatness of 600+ small districts it doesn't seem to help the students in Newark, Camden, Trenton, and Paterson much. Why? Because all the money in the world, the greatest teachers on earth, and the finest educational facilities are not going to make a bit of difference to a child who comes to school hungry wearing the same clothes they had on yesterday and who is wondering if the local gang is going to try to recruit him again on his way from school. Teachers are teachers-they're not social workers or foster parents. My point in all of this is that if tomorrow our children were part of a new county school district, nothing would change for them. They would know that we still expected them to work to their full potential, and to aim high.

Let's also not act as though the only people who are successful in life come from the Northeast. While products of say, the Mississippi public schools may not be lighting the world on fire by and large, there are exceptional students from all walks of life from all over the country who are high achievers, again, due just as much to parental involvement and guidance as to good schools. I suppose that the counter to that may be who is getting into the "elite" schools, which is another worn out concept. Unless they got a either a full or substantial scholarship, if any of our children were to get into an Ivy or otherwise "elite" private school we would all but forbid them from attending. The reality is that they could get just as practical and useful an education in a good field for half the cost or less at a state school that would result in maximum return on investment upon graduation rather than racking up hundreds of thousands in student loan debt. In closing, the "BUT THE SCHOOLS!!!" argument is one rooted solely in irrational emotion-not facts.
Nailed it.

To your points that I bolded, all of my family (cousins included) attended public schools in MO, IL and TX, both suburban and urban

Among them are graduates of Washington University in St Louis, St John's University, Princeton, some University in Switzerland and other colleges. One earned his Doctorate in Chemistry from University of MO in Columbia.

Much credit goes to our parents, aunts and uncles, none of whom went beyond high school at best, who stayed on top of our progress from kindergarten through high school. No ifs, ands or buts.

Full disclosure, unlike most of my family members I dropped out of U of MO after one year because I wanted to hit the road and get out on my own. Needless to say that went over like a loud fart in church with my parents but that's the way I rolled.

Fortunately it worked out for me.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:13 PM
Location: Mt. Holly, NJ
221 posts, read 178,144 times
Reputation: 207
Default Why ????

N.J. as with other Democratic controlled States, tends to squander money to democratic machines
and groups. If N.J. people voted in the Republican slate, things would change for the better...................
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:31 AM
Location: NJ
18,178 posts, read 12,841,870 times
Reputation: 11993
NJ's only hope is rising sea level, sinking land mass and a bridge to PA.
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:58 AM
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,571 posts, read 10,990,156 times
Reputation: 3815
NJ=money, fact of life. It will not change. If you have money you put up with the nonsense reluctantly. If you don't, well it's kind of sucky.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:55 AM
Location: NJ & NV
5,551 posts, read 13,975,909 times
Reputation: 2217
I never saw this forum thread before, BUT I thought it was going to be about a traffic circle 😎
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:30 AM
Location: Earth
5,928 posts, read 3,821,100 times
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Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
NJ=money, fact of life. It will not change. If you have money you put up with the nonsense reluctantly. If you don't, well it's kind of sucky.

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Old 08-24-2019, 12:14 PM
102 posts, read 36,786 times
Reputation: 371
NJ is expensive to live in without question with budget issues that may or may not be insurmountable depending on the condition of the overall countries economy. The future pension issue and infrastructure needs for NJ are ones that are a concern for state and local governments all over the country. Keep that in mind when you consider moving to that supposedly low tax state.

Those who rightfully complain but also enjoy the advantages of being near the shore, the Poconos, Lancaster, NYC or Philly and good health care, or at least the access to them, should move out 1000 miles inland to parts of the country where access to those sorts of things are not an hour to two away and see if that works for them.

Depending on where you choose, taxes can be surprisingly high in a metro area of a state with otherwise low taxes and taxes can be extracted from you in different ways via access fees, user fees, toll roads, other property valuation levies etc. For some that would be fine but others not so much.

Natives to NJ take a lot for granted. We all suffer from the grass is always greener over someone elses septic tank syndrome.

If your house is paid for you have high property taxes to contend with, but if you don't own property you still have rent to pay and NJ includes a tax deduction for % of rent assumed to be property tax related. We don't have sales tax on food , clothes or medicine while many states including low tax states do. Military pensions and SS are not taxed along with some limited interest income. While the pension exclusion continues to grow to $80K for a married couple for 2019 it is a double edged sword.

While I don't like paying taxes they are necessary . I just don't want the dollars wasted or politicians granting them selves and connections larger raises or better pensons or bloated contracts vs what the normal working person gets in similar administrative or labor positions.

Got a pot hole in front of your house? While its great you are not paying any taxes a front end alignment costs a little over $100 depending on your vehicle. Have to take a 10 mile detour because the road or bridge is out every other day? That's a lot of gas and car wear and tear not to mention the use of your remaining life span spent in the car .

What the state does not provide to the municipalities they make up for in property taxes or reassessments. Mine just went up again $100 for the year and I expect that to continue if only to cover inflation of govt salaries and costs of materials to maintain the infrastructure at a minimum level.

Our schools are very good. While we can all point to waste and instances of bad schools or a bad teacher overall our kids are much better prepared than many. Parental involvement has more to do with a child's success than a lot of lazy parents want to admit, but funding matters.

I lived in states where my kids used books that were two years behind the ones they had used in NJ. That is just they way it is in some low tax states. Those kids start off behind and many don't catch up, perpetuating a cycle of poverty .

I do believe NJ could consolidate a lot of the smaller systems and save on high level admin costs. Having a highly paid superintendent with related support and staffs for all these small systems takes away from classroom level funding.

Our state is as good as any, better than some in a few areas, not as much in others, but having had the choice to be anywhere in the country we passed on job offers and brought the family back here. Here we will stay.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:32 PM
Location: North Carolina
6,359 posts, read 7,168,039 times
Reputation: 6038
It's true that in other states there are little taxes on things that wouldn't be taxed in NJ. Here in NC, we pay 2% sales tax on food and property tax on cars up to a maximum fee of $350 (like on a new Rolls Royce) but those small taxes are a tiny percentage of what I save in the property tax difference between my old NJ house and the much bigger one here in NC.
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