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Old 01-06-2019, 12:06 PM
 
853 posts, read 460,527 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
The cities you listed are definitely struggling still. However, Newark's revitalization is pretty new. Even outside of downtown JC, the rest of JC is just finally starting to see a similar influx of people. It will definitely not happen overnight. I also think some urban centers are just doomed, though, and no amount of money can fix them. Paterson is one of those, and Passaic sorta also. I just think Paterson is too far removed from NYC to be an easy commuter destination. While it's bigger than Morristown, it's similarly far away, but Morristown has always been better off. Unless Paterson can showcase itself as a suburban alternative to NYC like Morristown is, it's doomed because of its distance from NYC not making it as attractive as Hudson/Essex/Bergen County cities. Same goes for Passaic.

East Orange and Irvington will have to wait for Newark to become a bigger job/entertainment hub. Same with Elizabeth. Though Elizabeth is already seeing some residential buildings popping up near the NJT station for easy commuting to NYC.

I think as Philly improves, it will affect Camden and Trenton. Trenton's region will be a good commuter zone for couples that have one partner working in NYC and the other in Philly. It could start to be a possibility with Philly's economy improving so much. And as people get priced out of Philly, Camden will become an alternative. However, Philly has a long way to go, with much of North, Northeast, and West Philly still untouched by gentrification. Again, it will take a long time, but the future is there for it. Philly is back and it's not likely it will be going anywhere again.

As for AC, if more hotels continue to get built, more construction workers will be involved in the economy, more employees will be needed to staff the casinos and hotels, and more people will visit the city for vacation. Those staffing the new projects will have to live in the area, some probably settling in the city if they're on the poorer end. Just as Las Vegas wasn't much before, AC isn't right now. However, it has the true bones of a pretty good size city, right on the ocean, with its own airport, and direct train access to one of the largest cities in the country. Though again it'll take a long time, it has the potential, and the investment in new resort properties is a sign of hope. I personally know a lot of people from this part of the country that wish the Northeast had a larger job center on the ocean. I think if AC capitalized on the fact that it's the only major city on the ocean in the Northeast with such infrastructure and layout, it could return. There are other shore towns that are densely packed, but I don't think there are any that have the urban structures that AC does, and they definitely don't have the high rise resorts or airport. The only city that comes to mind that's even close is Asbury Park, which is actually taking off right now. The two could function well as a north and south anchor to a beautiful stretch of beach resorts.

As for commuting from Bucks County, that's a LONG commute to most job centers that not everyone is accepting of. Also, many, if not all, government jobs require you to reside within the government's jurisdiction. Whether that be the State of NJ requiring you to have a permanent residence in NJ or the State of NY requiring the same or the City of NY requiring you to reside within the city or a select few suburban communities in NY state. Buck is not an option for everyone. While some places in the South can come close, there's nothing like going to Arthur Ave, Little Italy or Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights/Bensonhurst for Italian culture, Chinatown or Flushing for Chinese culture, Astoria for Greek, Jackson Heights/Jersey City for Indian, Newark for Brazilian/Portuguese/Spanish, and all the other numerous cultural locations for Koreans, Caribbeans, African Americans, Latinos, etc. And there is not much that compares to a rooftop bar in Manhattan, or a warehouse party in Williamsburg/Bushwick, or the other numerous locations for all types of live music all over the region. NC and Miami might be good suburban places to raise families, but if you enjoy the culturally diverse experiences of NYC (and Philly too), there is just no competition. And to some people, that's not the biggest concern. For them, NJ doesn't make sense. For others, it does.
I do believe the majority of urban centers in New Jersey will continue to struggle for the foreseeable future, which makes me sad to say because I believe everyone deserves a chance at the American dream. But lack of good economic policy at the state level, schools that invest more in administration than teachers and helping students, lack of investment in infrastructure, and high crime are all barriers to the revitalization of most of our urban centers. I pray to God I'm wrong, because I want these areas to succeed and be better for residents and businesses.

I believe Atlantic City could be an economic superpower, but like the other urban areas I mentioned there is not the political will to make that happen it seems. I would like to see Atlantic City be a leader not only in entertainment and tourism, but education as well. Certainly, the opening of Rowan University's location in Atlantic City is a good thing, but there is a ways to go. Atlantic City could be a perfect place for those studying hospitality, political science, and marine biology.

The drive from Doylestown, PA to downtown Philadelphia is the same as the commute from Morristown, NJ to the GWB or Lincoln Tunnel. The drive from New Hope, PA to downtown Philadelphia is the same as the commute from Cranbury, NJ to the GWB or Lincoln Tunnel. With regards to the culture and food, I am not suggesting there is culture and food as unique as in New Jersey in other places, my point is more than it can come close and the cost of living is substantially less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee View Post
I (along with quite a few others, I would imagine) am quite happy being "left behind" here in rural New Jersey. We don't want or need anymore development than we already have, and we're quite happy with our school system. We don't need any additional roads, we don't need more access to transit, we don't need box stores, sidewalks, parks, or "walkable downtowns." My property taxes are high just like anyone else's, but I honestly don't give it that much thought. I'm not really sure what direction you want to "turn NJ around" to face or head in, but whenever you do, please don't take us with you
My point isn't that rural New Jersey needs to be developed, my point is that the existing population is leaving because younger people do not want to live in rural communities in the state. I think a part of this is that as a state, we have forgotten our proud agricultural heritage. But a lot of it is also personal preferences (which public policy has nothing to do with) and economics (which public policy directly impacts).

You may not mind high property taxes, but many in rural New Jersey do. That is part of the reason people are leaving. Rural New Jersey has fine schools, but they are being underfunded because of the current school funding formula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
Very true. The Abbott decision left the great majority of NJ's districts were left scrambling for money.
Of all the challenges we talk about, I feel this one is the most critical challenge. We need fair school funding and lower property taxes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
There have been many, many governors from both parties all of whom have failed to solve the issues. To try to blame Murphy for the state of NJ (no pun intended) is nothing more than partisanship for the sake of partisanship.
I do not blame Governor Murphy for creating the challenges we face, but he does deserve blame for doubling-down on the failed policies of the past and therefore continuing the challenges we face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
I think the State it's self needs to rewrite it's tax code. I honestly think the middle and lower class's in the state pay to much of the burden and the the top 5% and corporations don't pay enough . By doing so will some companies leave maybe but with Port Newark, the Turnpike and New York City and yes Philly. New Jersey residents have always lived off of the benefits of it's proximity to NYC and Philly and it's location on the Eastern seaboard there will always be jobs and people working in NJ as someone else pointed people will come and go .A company leaves and one opens up .New Jersey is still one of the largest suppliers of Produce on the Eastern side of the country,I think NJ should help the Farmers in the state more and help that industry .
I also support the state rewriting our tax code. I say we should eliminate all individual income taxes, cut the corporate business tax to 5%, and raise the sales tax.

How can you possibly claim that corporations don't pay enough taxes in New Jersey, we had one of the highest corporate business taxes in the nation and now we have the highest. It's not like the federal tax code where there are a ton of loopholes. Corporations in New Jersey pay too much in taxes, not too little.

You claim our residents have thrived off of the proximity to New York City and Philadelphia which historically has been true, but in recent years we have lagged behind the rest of the country in economic growth. Between 2007 and 2017, while the nation saw GDP growth of 1.5%, we barely grew at 0.4% GDP growth.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Earth
5,882 posts, read 3,799,130 times
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atlantic city needs a direct train line to nyc that bypasses philly. Need to extend the coast line. They also need a train to the plane to AC international airport. Philly does not have the money to support AC. also, they need to do residencies like las vegas does. BRing bon jovi, bruce, and lady gaga down to AC.


I think all NJ cities will gentrify. Its a matter of time. NJ is still one of the riches states in the union. THere is no reason to have hoods in NJ. NJ has better pizza than connecticut
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:13 PM
 
385 posts, read 223,818 times
Reputation: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92 View Post
My point isn't that rural New Jersey needs to be developed, my point is that the existing population is leaving because younger people do not want to live in rural communities in the state. I think a part of this is that as a state, we have forgotten our proud agricultural heritage. But a lot of it is also personal preferences (which public policy has nothing to do with) and economics (which public policy directly impacts).
No one "forgot" anything. The biggest enemy of agriculture in NJ is development. Young people don't go into agriculture in NJ because unless they inherit land they can't afford to compete with developers. This has been alleviated somewhat by farmland preservation, which strips the land of development rights and allows farmers to purchase land strictly based on its agricultural, rather than development value. My property borders two preserved family farms-those farms both border one "farm" that was not preserved-it is now a development of 3000+ SF homes on 3-4 acre lots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92 View Post
You may not mind high property taxes, but many in rural New Jersey do. That is part of the reason people are leaving. Rural New Jersey has fine schools, but they are being underfunded because of the current school funding formula.
I didn't say I didn't mind them, I just have more pressing things on my mind usually-like the eternal mud season we've been in. I don't really know or care why people are leaving rural NJ in general. The gentleman we bought our home from had lived here 45 years, raised three kids with the love of his life, lots of sheep and goats, made lots of memories. He didn't leave because the taxes were too high-he left because it made no sense to live alone (his wife had passed) in a five bedroom house. As far as the schools being underfunded by the state I can certainly agree with you there-state funding should be distributed strictly on a per-pupil basis and nothing more.

Last edited by Swamp_Yankee; 01-06-2019 at 06:32 PM..
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:14 PM
 
Location: NJ
4,846 posts, read 10,088,116 times
Reputation: 4236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
atlantic city needs a direct train line to nyc that bypasses philly. Need to extend the coast line. They also need a train to the plane to AC international airport.
What evidence do you have to support the theory that there would be any demand for people to take a 2-3 hour train ride between NYC and AC? You're talking hundreds of millions of dollars to extend a rail line that would likely get very little use. NJ Transit infrastructure is falling apart in nearby suburbs where they really need train service. There is no money to maintain the existing rail lines, let alone expand them. Plus there are already 3 major airports in the NYC region. Again, who is going to take a train 2-3 hours to catch a plane in AC?
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,531 posts, read 11,018,921 times
Reputation: 5485
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
Great story, I agree with much of your praise for this state .It truly is a great place to live and raise a family. Your bias against Murphy , your hatred clouds you vision. The man deserves a chance to turn things around and if he doesn't then handle it at election time . Your constant Murphy bashing is very trump like, like a petulant child.
Murphy hasn't done anything significant nor has any realistic plans to help improve the South Jersey economy. People are leaving this state in droves. He's keeps talking about improving NJ Transit when all he has done is made it worst. His handling of the Atlantic City line is an absolute disgrace! Almost all the cities in New Jersey are a cesspool of high crime and decaying infrastructure led by failing local city governments. If we don't see any improvements from him by the end of this year he could possibly go down as one of the worst governors this state has ever elected.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:13 PM
 
28,274 posts, read 19,887,542 times
Reputation: 49521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
atlantic city needs a direct train line to nyc that bypasses philly. Need to extend the coast line. They also need a train to the plane to AC international airport. Philly does not have the money to support AC. also, they need to do residencies like las vegas does. BRing bon jovi, bruce, and lady gaga down to AC.


I think all NJ cities will gentrify. Its a matter of time. NJ is still one of the riches states in the union. THere is no reason to have hoods in NJ. NJ has better pizza than connecticut

They had an express Atlantic City – New York City train for a while several years ago, sponsored by the casinos. It failed miserably.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:14 PM
 
28,274 posts, read 19,887,542 times
Reputation: 49521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
atlantic city needs a direct train line to nyc that bypasses philly. Need to extend the coast line. They also need a train to the plane to AC international airport. Philly does not have the money to support AC. also, they need to do residencies like las vegas does. BRing bon jovi, bruce, and lady gaga down to AC.


I think all NJ cities will gentrify. Its a matter of time. NJ is still one of the riches states in the union. THere is no reason to have hoods in NJ. NJ has better pizza than connecticut
All of those performers have played in Atlantic City multiple times.

Remember Atlantic City had a monopoly for many years. They were very hurt by the opening of the Philadelphia casinos. They lost at least 1/3 to half of their customer base.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:45 AM
 
Location: NYC
16,534 posts, read 10,665,434 times
Reputation: 19560
AC is dead, killed by NYC casinos. Not to mention they never improved the area or modernize the infrastructure around. Not to mention NJ troopers love pulling cars over on the way to AC and people got fed up going to AC because it was such a hassle.

There's no evidence that all of NJ towns are gentrifying. Some have pockets of gentrification but the same problems persist in the high crime towns. You check the crime blotters and the same towns features shootings, car jackings, and drug arrests. In fact, it's the good towns that are feeding the demand of drugs that creates the drug mills in the neighboring bad towns. It's not gonna go away unless the drug culture stops.

If NJ becomes a full recreational weed state, the drug use will go up. That means there will be a spike in drug trade crime.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:29 AM
 
16,473 posts, read 6,380,324 times
Reputation: 6558
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Murphy hasn't done anything significant nor has any realistic plans to help improve the South Jersey economy. People are leaving this state in droves. He's keeps talking about improving NJ Transit when all he has done is made it worst. His handling of the Atlantic City line is an absolute disgrace! Almost all the cities in New Jersey are a cesspool of high crime and decaying infrastructure led by failing local city governments. If we don't see any improvements from him by the end of this year he could possibly go down as one of the worst governors this state has ever elected.
A great story, none of it true but why let facts in the way?
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:33 AM
 
16,473 posts, read 6,380,324 times
Reputation: 6558
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
AC is dead, killed by NYC casinos. Not to mention they never improved the area or modernize the infrastructure around. Not to mention NJ troopers love pulling cars over on the way to AC and people got fed up going to AC because it was such a hassle.

There's no evidence that all of NJ towns are gentrifying. Some have pockets of gentrification but the same problems persist in the high crime towns. You check the crime blotters and the same towns features shootings, car jackings, and drug arrests. In fact, it's the good towns that are feeding the demand of drugs that creates the drug mills in the neighboring bad towns. It's not gonna go away unless the drug culture stops.

If NJ becomes a full recreational weed state, the drug use will go up. That means there will be a spike in drug trade crime.
No it was killed by the state not doing (the commission) what it was suppose to do and reinvesting in the whole town of AC when all this first started back in the 70's.It was killed by people like trump .It's was killed by gaming being allowed in other states ,PA,NY and MD. As for NJ State Troopers ....................."LOVE THEM" . People don't want to be pulled over then drive with in the law.
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