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The 225,000 NJT riders? No
The 250,000 PATH riders? No
The 50,000 or so NJ drivers who use the Holland and Lincoln tunnels? No
The 200,000 PABT commuters? No
That leaves GWB drivers. The article cited 150,000 who use that bridge. They’re not all from NJ. Let’s assume 2/3 of them are. And most vehicles on that bridge don’t end up below 60th Street. Most traffic (just by observation) continues to the BX and then fans out either to Queens/LI or Westchester/New england on 95. If we assume 20% go to midtown and below, that’s less than 20,000 NJ vehicles, or 2.7% of the NJ-to-NYC commuter population.
Congestion pricing sucks for those 20,000 people, but any suggestion that it will “destroy” NJ or have terrible impacts across the state of NJ is a bit over the top.
I do agree with those who say NJT and/or PA should get a cut. If you split it based on the toll receipts (which seems fair) NJ would probably get a very very tiny piece.
It'll definitely push more people onto NJT train lines than anything else I think. But I agree it's really not going to be that extreme. I just do think that NJT and PATH should get a cut of the money, since they'll be responsible for handling the overflow of drivers. If the goal is curbing "congestion" as it's called "Congestion Pricing," then that means NY wants more people taking public transit. More people from NJ probably will, but we won't see any benefit, even while we are the ones that will be key to curbing the congestion problem and we will be a large number of drivers that pay for the congestion pricing.
It'll definitely push more people onto NJT train lines than anything else I think. But I agree it's really not going to be that extreme. I just do think that NJT and PATH should get a cut of the money, since they'll be responsible for handling the overflow of drivers. If the goal is curbing "congestion" as it's called "Congestion Pricing," then that means NY wants more people taking public transit. More people from NJ probably will, but we won't see any benefit, even while we are the ones that will be key to curbing the congestion problem and we will be a large number of drivers that pay for the congestion pricing.
are we to believe it is at all about congestion and not about raising revenue?
i wonder what would happen if you just charged people who used public transportation the cost of the public transportation.
are we to believe it is at all about congestion and not about raising revenue?
i wonder what would happen if you just charged people who used public transportation the cost of the public transportation.
It's both for sure. MTA is crumbling and needs the funds from somewhere. Meanwhile, Manhattan is gridlocked for most of the day. If it wasn't so badly gridlocked, they could implement short-term band-aids in the form of express buses all over the city. But ATM, only subways are worthwhile with all the traffic above-ground.
The 225,000 NJT riders? No
The 250,000 PATH riders? No
The 50,000 or so NJ drivers who use the Holland and Lincoln tunnels? No
The 200,000 PABT commuters? No
That leaves GWB drivers. The article cited 150,000 who use that bridge. They’re not all from NJ. Let’s assume 2/3 of them are. And most vehicles on that bridge don’t end up below 60th Street. Most traffic (just by observation) continues to the BX and then fans out either to Queens/LI or Westchester/New england on 95. If we assume 20% go to midtown and below, that’s less than 20,000 NJ vehicles, or 2.7% of the NJ-to-NYC commuter population.
Congestion pricing sucks for those 20,000 people, but any suggestion that it will “destroy” NJ or have terrible impacts across the state of NJ is a bit over the top.
I do agree with those who say NJT and/or PA should get a cut. If you split it based on the toll receipts (which seems fair) NJ would probably get a very very tiny piece.
Like I said from the get-go, it's a money grab IMO.
Just a poor excuse.
Next, congestion pricing of public transportation.
Why aren't the bridges and tunnels free? They are in most other parts of the country.
Not really. Bridges and tunnels are tolled in many other cities. SF's bridges are tolled. Louisville has a tolled bridge from Southern Indiana. Bridges from NJ into Philly are tolled. Baltimore has a series of tolls on its bridges and/or tunnels IIRC. It's not unheard of.
Like I said from the get-go, it's a money grab IMO.
Just a poor excuse.
Next, congestion pricing of public transportation.
Have said this before, CP has nothing to do with controlling traffic as legislation reads. It strictly is about earning money for that money pit of MTA. This clearly is spelled out in the legislation, and the Mouth of Albany (Andrew Cuomo) along with NYS democrats make this quite clear.
Any reduction in midtown Manhattan vehicular traffic is just gravy. In fact if traffic levels decline too much and or the scheme does not raise predicted revenue NYS is screwed. They are counting on at least one billion or whatever in revenue per year in order to back bonds floated by MTA. If those numbers don't happen it will be same as when any other tax doesn't bring in predicted revenue; rates will have to be increased to make up the difference.
State is counting heavily on people *NOT* changing their driving habits and forking over the money instead. Only persons who really have to worry are state lesislators come next election, especially those from LI, Westchester and other downstate areas affected. Cuomo is done after four years so it won't bother him one bit. Well not unless he makes that widely rumored (but denied) run for WH in 2020. Even then Albany wrote the bill so CP does not begin until *after* the 2020 election cycle.
Not really. Bridges and tunnels are tolled in many other cities. SF's bridges are tolled. Louisville has a tolled bridge from Southern Indiana. Bridges from NJ into Philly are tolled. Baltimore has a series of tolls on its bridges and/or tunnels IIRC. It's not unheard of.
But it's not the majority either. Even in the case of the northeast USA, there are many bridges that are free. Even from New Jersey to Pennsylvania there are 10 bridges that are free. New Jerseyans and northeasterners in general passively accept the premise of tolls.
Have said this before, CP has nothing to do with controlling traffic as legislation reads. It strictly is about earning money for that money pit of MTA. This clearly is spelled out in the legislation, and the Mouth of Albany (Andrew Cuomo) along with NYS democrats make this quite clear.
Any reduction in midtown Manhattan vehicular traffic is just gravy. In fact if traffic levels decline too much and or the scheme does not raise predicted revenue NYS is screwed. They are counting on at least one billion or whatever in revenue per year in order to back bonds floated by MTA. If those numbers don't happen it will be same as when any other tax doesn't bring in predicted revenue; rates will have to be increased to make up the difference.
State is counting heavily on people *NOT* changing their driving habits and forking over the money instead. Only persons who really have to worry are state lesislators come next election, especially those from LI, Westchester and other downstate areas affected. Cuomo is done after four years so it won't bother him one bit. Well not unless he makes that widely rumored (but denied) run for WH in 2020. Even then Albany wrote the bill so CP does not begin until *after* the 2020 election cycle.
Very much so and a money grab (I don't like the "earning money" as they IMO earned nothing, better off saying "stealing" would actually be closer to the truth) as you said for the MTA but why do I also think it will be also going to the PANYNJ if not all of it - "I gotta stop thinking that these politicians are crooked and not to be trusted".
"CP does not begin until *after* the 2020 election cycle" - "I again gotta stop thinking that these politicians are crooked and not to be trusted".
NJ should annex northeast corridor sections of ny and penn.
Transit needs to be planned regional. Its stupid having all these fiefdoms. NJ is the center of the world.
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