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i see a lot of logics here that are very useful for when the government wants to walk all over people's individual freedom.
What exactly do you see?
You are predicting "individual freedoms" (which ones are you referring to?) will be walked all over WHEN the gov't wants to & based on the "a lot of logics" you see, here?
So are you saying all is good UNTIL...?
What does this have to do with public health at large? What are you comparing it to?
You are predicting "individual freedoms" (which ones are you referring to?) will be walked all over WHEN the gov't wants to & based on the "a lot of logics" you see, here?
So are you saying all is good UNTIL...?
What does this have to do with public health at large? What are you comparing it to?
haha you are asking a lot of questions here and im not sure they are relevant to my points. anyway, ill answer the first one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
If there were a valid reason not to vaccinate healthy children then vaccine school mandates would not exist.
this is a very strange assumption. to assume that school mandates (or any government mandates) only exist if there is a valid reason. for one thing, it assumes that a "valid reason" for one person is also valid for everyone else. you are taking away the rights of people with minority opinions. also, history would show that many mandates were not valid and were harmful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
However, the risk from vaccines is so tiny that mandates are justified.
that is an opinion. we may agree with that the risk is tiny but that logic can be used for many things that we wouldnt agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Every parent has the choice to vaccinate or not. Whether he wants to use public schools or not is strictly up to him.
yeah, you have a choice. but if you choose not to vaccinate you will have to fork over $10,000+ per year for private school or sacrifice your time/opportunity cost to home school. i find this funny because you clearly dont want people to have a choice. so you arent even happy about this limitation but you are happy knowing that most people cant afford to opt out of public schools so their choice is really very limited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Mandates help protect the general population against potentially dangerous diseases.
they can also fail to protect against disease, protect against diseases that arent particularly dangerous, protect against the spread of homosexuality/drug use/etc. etc. etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
No one should be forced to accept the risks generated by anti-vaccinationism.
now you are creating a situation where people cant just be left alone. someone who just wants to live their life and make their own choices with their bodies has now become that aggressor. that is a scary phrase that justifies violence against people who havent acted violentlty towards others.
this is a very strange assumption. to assume that school mandates (or any government mandates) only exist if there is a valid reason. for one thing, it assumes that a "valid reason" for one person is also valid for everyone else. you are taking away the rights of people with minority opinions. also, history would show that many mandates were not valid and were harmful.
Protecting the public from dangerous diseases should not be a matter of "minority opinion", especially when the "minority opinion" is based on misinformation and pseudoscience.
Quote:
that is an opinion. we may agree with that the risk is tiny but that logic can be used for many things that we wouldnt agree with.
The risks of vaccines are known, based on scientific evidence. That is not "opinion."
Quote:
yeah, you have a choice. but if you choose not to vaccinate you will have to fork over $10,000+ per year for private school or sacrifice your time/opportunity cost to home school. i find this funny because you clearly dont want people to have a choice. so you arent even happy about this limitation but you are happy knowing that most people cant afford to opt out of public schools so their choice is really very limited.
What you do if you cannot send your child to public school is up to you. Many people work and home school. The demographic most likely to refuse vaccines could afford private school or have a SAHM. The people who cannot afford to home school also cannot afford to take time off to care for a sick child.
Quote:
they can also fail to protect against disease, protect against diseases that arent particularly dangerous, protect against the spread of homosexuality/drug use/etc. etc. etc.
Every vaccine for which there is a mandate protects against a potentially fatal illness. There are none that "arent particularly dangerous".
Quote:
now you are creating a situation where people cant just be left alone. someone who just wants to live their life and make their own choices with their bodies has now become that aggressor. that is a scary phrase that justifies violence against people who havent acted violentlty towards others.
I would say that your child giving another child an infection that at best could make him very sick and at worst could cause permanent disability or death is acting "violentlty towards others".
With regard to vaccine preventable diseases your choices can seriously affect other people. It's not a matter of "someone who just wants to live their life."
Every vaccine for which there is a mandate protects against a potentially fatal illness. There are none that "arent particularly dangerous".
you dont seem to understand the difference between your own judgment calls and opinions and facts. what you think is very dangerous may be "not particularly dangerous" to other people. you dont have the right to force your decisions on them. that is basically every point you made above. you have accepted certain things and since you accepted them; you feel justified in forcing others to accept them.
Protecting the public from dangerous diseases should not be a matter of "minority opinion", especially when the "minority opinion" is based on misinformation and pseudoscience.
The risks of vaccines are known, based on scientific evidence. That is not "opinion."
What you do if you cannot send your child to public school is up to you. Many people work and home school. The demographic most likely to refuse vaccines could afford private school or have a SAHM. The people who cannot afford to home school also cannot afford to take time off to care for a sick child.
Every vaccine for which there is a mandate protects against a potentially fatal illness. There are none that "arent particularly dangerous".
I would say that your child giving another child an infection that at best could make him very sick and at worst could cause permanent disability or death is acting "violentlty towards others".
With regard to vaccine preventable diseases your choices can seriously affect other people. It's not a matter of "someone who just wants to live their life."
You can protect yourself by getting all of the vaccines that you see fit. Forcing others to comply with your way is not the answer.
you dont seem to understand the difference between your own judgment calls and opinions and facts. what you think is very dangerous may be "not particularly dangerous" to other people. you dont have the right to force your decisions on them. that is basically every point you made above. you have accepted certain things and since you accepted them; you feel justified in forcing others to accept them.
I have provided facts supported by sources. You are the one left with only opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
You can protect yourself by getting all of the vaccines that you see fit. Forcing others to comply with your way is not the answer.
You are free never to take any vaccines ever. However, in the close quarters of a school classroom an unvaccinated child can start a VPD outbreak before anyone knows he is sick. That is why vaccines are required to attend school. You feel justified in forcing others to accept the risks your unvaccinated child poses. Mandates are not going away, but non-medical waivers are. Deal with it.
I have provided facts supported by sources. You are the one left with only opinions.
You are free never to take any vaccines ever. However, in the close quarters of a school classroom an unvaccinated child can start a VPD outbreak before anyone knows he is sick. That is why vaccines are required to attend school. You feel justified in forcing others to accept the risks your unvaccinated child poses. Mandates are not going away, but non-medical waivers are. Deal with it.
I will not “deal with it”. I will speak up about it and fight it.
Visited my 2 month old grandson yesterday. DIL said he was up all night crying because he got a vaccination that day. She said her Pediatrician wanted to give him that new 6 in 1 vaccination, but she told her that was too many at one time.
Her Pediatrician said that was fine that a lot of parents were refusing 6 at one time and that she would use the older 3 in 1 and the older schedule.
If baby was that fussy with just 3 imagine what 6 would have been like? I think the Polio is one of those bundled in it. That used to be given only by itself. Who was that "doctor" who said kids can be be given 1,000 at one time and have any adverse reactions? Is that next?
Visited my 2 month old grandson yesterday. DIL said he was up all night crying because he got a vaccination that day. She said her Pediatrician wanted to give him that new 6 in 1 vaccination, but she told her that was too many at one time.
Her Pediatrician said that was fine that a lot of parents were refusing 6 at one time and that she would use the older 3 in 1 and the older schedule.
If baby was that fussy with just 3 imagine what 6 would have been like? I think the Polio is one of those bundled in it. That used to be given only by itself. Who was that "doctor" who said kids can be be given 1,000 at one time and have any adverse reactions? Is that next?
Paul Offit said that kids can handle 10,000 vaccines at once.
Not everywhere. Some states have stopped this kind of legislation (Oregon, Colorado) and others have made it easier to get exemptions (Idaho and Arizona)
New Jersey is currently trying to take away religious exemptions but it hasn’t happened yet.
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