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Old 05-05-2019, 10:59 AM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,936,144 times
Reputation: 18449

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
If you don't have your own titers checked, you may very well be one of the morons walking around risking exposure to the measles. If it's so deadly then proof of vaccination should be required for entry into the country. Are visiting "anti-vax morons" somehow less dangerous than the ones living in the country? If it's so deadly then, "I might have read something somewhere sometime, half an article or a headline, or instagram, something about me probably being pretty safe from getting it" wouldn't be good enough. You'd be marching in for your blood tests every year and prezenting zee papers to prove you're not a risk to the community.
People should definitely ensure their immunity is still strong. For example, pregnant women and people who will be around newborns are recommended to receive a booster for pertussis, which can kill babies too young to be vaccinated. However, at least personally I don't see this issue discussed much. The pertussis thing is something a lot of people don't know about. The vaccine discussion and debate is generally is usually about immunizing kids. I think there needs to be more awareness out there about the fact that older adults may have some waning immunity and may need more shots. Hopefully it is something doctors discuss with their patients at physicals.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Central, NJ
2,730 posts, read 6,105,349 times
Reputation: 4110
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
People should definitely ensure their immunity is still strong. For example, pregnant women and people who will be around newborns are recommended to receive a booster for pertussis, which can kill babies too young to be vaccinated. However, at least personally I don't see this issue discussed much. The pertussis thing is something a lot of people don't know about. The vaccine discussion and debate is generally is usually about immunizing kids. I think there needs to be more awareness out there about the fact that older adults may have some waning immunity and may need more shots. Hopefully it is something doctors discuss with their patients at physicals.
It really should be discussed in annual visits and added to routine bloodwork. It seemed odd to me that there was a list of vaccines that were crucial for my newborn, but they never once asked if we had received the vaccines. Chicken pox was the only thing my gyn mentioned being an issue and is, I believe, routinely checked if you discuss pregnancy planning. I thought I needed the vaccine because I had never had chicken pox but it turned out that I was immune. She said it's possible to go undetected if there's just one or two marks. But I doubt it's ever discussed with men. It's just so annoying to see people being whipped up by these alarmist "news stories" and spout off about people when so many of them are walking around just as vulnerable as the groups it has become socially acceptable to berate.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,087,048 times
Reputation: 44970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana Tony View Post
... and God only knows what kind of diseases are being brought in through our southern border by the Third World.
If by Third World you mean Central America, their vaccination rates are higher than anti-vax clusters in the US. Mexico has one measles case this year - imported by an American. Costa Rica has six cases in a single American family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i would never stop anyone from getting a vaccination. so responding to me like that doesnt make sense.

i advocate against government force and i also point out that government lies about vaccines to limit dissent. i dont promote an anti-vaccine agenda. i promote and anti-government agenda because there is no greater evil on earth than the US government and government in general.

if people want to take their chances without a vaccine, then measles probably makes sense to them because it is a relatively harmless vaccine most of the time. pointing out the limited times it has a very bad result doesnt change the fact that it is very limited.
What lies? When you claim things like that you are aligning yourself with the anti-vaxers.

Does it make sense not to use vaccines that are safe and effective because ... government?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
It really should be discussed in annual visits and added to routine bloodwork. It seemed odd to me that there was a list of vaccines that were crucial for my newborn, but they never once asked if we had received the vaccines. Chicken pox was the only thing my gyn mentioned being an issue and is, I believe, routinely checked if you discuss pregnancy planning. I thought I needed the vaccine because I had never had chicken pox but it turned out that I was immune. She said it's possible to go undetected if there's just one or two marks. But I doubt it's ever discussed with men. It's just so annoying to see people being whipped up by these alarmist "news stories" and spout off about people when so many of them are walking around just as vulnerable as the groups it has become socially acceptable to berate.
The cost of testing titers for every vaccine preventable disease for every person in the country would bankrupt us. It is not necessary. For every vaccine the vast majority of vaccinated persons will be protected. For measles only about three out of 100 will not be. We will not know specifically who those three are, but if herd immunity is maintained they are unlikely to be exposed and infected. They will not be clustered in communities but spread throughout the population. There are not "so many" of them. Of the group who are not vaccinated if they have not had measles 100% of them are susceptible. Three percent versus 100%. Which group is more likely to get measles, especially when those who are not vaccinated live near one another and socialize?

The deliberately unvaccinated totally own the current outbreaks in NY.

As far as pregnancy is concerned, pre-planning should include testing for immunity to rubella as well as chickenpox. During pregnancy Tdap is recommended to boost whooping cough protection for the newborn. Flu vaccine is recommended for the same reason but also because flu during pregnancy has a greater risk of severe disease and mortality.

Every case of measles sets off public health alarms because we do not want that disease circulating in the US population again. Even one case mandates a call to report it from the doctor diagnosing it to the health department.

All adults should be up to date on vaccines, too. If your doctor does not bring it up, you should.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,584,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bookspage View Post
Unfortunately, this isn't how herd immunity works.
if you want the vaccine, get the vaccine. that is how individual choice works. nobody has an obligation to become part of a herd.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:50 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,584,943 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

When you claim things like that you are aligning yourself with the anti-vaxers.

Does it make sense not to use vaccines that are safe and effective because ... government?
i align with myself. this is a very low information way of arguing. "oh you are aligning with bad people by saying something that isnt opposing them. so you are bad also!" what a joke. this is a disgusting tactic to silence opposition.

the government is evil so it has no right to force people to vaccinate. that is too much power over us to give government. it doesnt matter what your opinion on vaccines are; government shouldnt have the power to force it on people.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,087,048 times
Reputation: 44970
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i align with myself. this is a very low information way of arguing. "oh you are aligning with bad people by saying something that isnt opposing them. so you are bad also!" what a joke. this is a disgusting tactic to silence opposition.

the government lies. so it makes sense to not trust anything they say. perhaps if they were more open and didnt do so many evil things; people wouldnt be skeptical. like i already said, i believe that the math works out in favor of vaccination. but that still does leave some people who get screwed by side effects of vaccines. its also inevitably going to lead to negative consequences because people now think vaccinating is a religious belief and will put anything in their body as long as they are told it is a vaccination.

we dont have a better government than the one that did this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskeg...lis_experiment

we have a worse government than the one that did this.
How is the government specifically lying about vaccines?
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:28 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,232,521 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i align with myself. this is a very low information way of arguing. "oh you are aligning with bad people by saying something that isnt opposing them. so you are bad also!" what a joke. this is a disgusting tactic to silence opposition.

the government is evil so it has no right to force people to vaccinate. that is too much power over us to give government. it doesnt matter what your opinion on vaccines are; government shouldnt have the power to force it on people.
Do you vaccinate your children?

The government shouldn't be able to enforce "no soda can be sold in a cup/can over 8oz" and "not hotdogs at a baseball stadium for you". IMO.

Health issues, as far as vaccine preventable diseases, that can and will affect a large population, as we have already seen? They are a completely different animal.

The allowance of fake philosophical and fake religious beliefs to avoid vaccinating children is WHY we are having these outbreaks after decades of NOT. Not an opinion.

The fear of the MMR, because people were told that it causes autism by some nut jobs, was definitely a huge boost to the anti-vax movement. You can't shake the stupid out of hard headed anti-vaxxers who fell/fall for Wakefield's & Mercola's BS.

You have a different issue. You don't like the gov't telling you what to do. I get it. Just don't cut your nose off to spite the government and risk the health of your children.

Last edited by Informed Info; 05-05-2019 at 09:46 PM..
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:09 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,584,943 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
How is the government specifically lying about vaccines?
that is a more involved discussion than is needed for my point here. like i said, if you want to get a vaccine; get it. the government has no right to force people to get it though.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,584,943 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info View Post
The allowance of fake philosophical and fake religious beliefs to avoid vaccinating children is WHY we are having these outbreaks after decades of NOT. Not an opinion.
im sure we will survive the current "outbreak" of measles.

and these people shouldnt need fake beliefs to avoid vaccinating their children. they should be able to just make that choice freely.

oh and my children are fully vaccinated. i believe there are school requirements as well as her doctor pressuring my wife. my general preference for them would be to pick which ones id want them to take and to delay taking them and spread them out more. now they have chicken pox vaccine which i didnt take. its not a big deal. i imagine in 30 years there will be a chicken pox outbreak and people will scream at people for not vaccinating their kids for chicken pox. then someone like me will say that chicken pox is no big deal and someone else will say "i almost died of chicken pox" and another will say "not unless you are blinded by chicken pox!"
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,087,048 times
Reputation: 44970
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im sure we will survive the current "outbreak" of measles.

and these people shouldnt need fake beliefs to avoid vaccinating their children. they should be able to just make that choice freely.

oh and my children are fully vaccinated. i believe there are school requirements as well as her doctor pressuring my wife. my general preference for them would be to pick which ones id want them to take and to delay taking them and spread them out more. now they have chicken pox vaccine which i didnt take. its not a big deal. i imagine in 30 years there will be a chicken pox outbreak and people will scream at people for not vaccinating their kids for chicken pox. then someone like me will say that chicken pox is no big deal and someone else will say "i almost died of chicken pox" and another will say "not unless you are blinded by chicken pox!"
Not vaccinating against measles during an outbreak is different from vaccinating as part of a school mandate.

Refusing to vaccinate in order to keep an outbreak from getting bigger should not be on the table.
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