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You sound mad because you couldn't comprehend a simple math lesson in being cost effective. The fact remains that EVs cost a LOT more than regular cars, especially when you include maintanance cost, which I just proved in my above post regarding battery replacement alone.
No, sleep dimentia Joe did not make me and will NEVER make me buy an EV. I proudly dropped all vehicle owning costs several years ago and proudly pay NJT $78/month for a bus pass to get around, or use Uber when needed. Amazing how much money that saves by truly going green.
I am in Union County and after Sandy, we lost power for almost 2 complete weeks. It was restored on Friday of the 2nd week. The other side of my town was lucky and had their power back after 1 week. These are facts, not an opinion.
Lastly, I actually am interested in technology when it truly does save money. For example, many areas of the US are experimenting with an Uber-like Electric Trolley forms of transportation under a company called Circuit Ride costing anywhere from Free to $2 per ride when hailing a ride through their app, which has fairly good reviews in the app store. I am not against Electric, when it is in the form of pooling several people together for cheaper rides, getting folks where they want to go. In fact, they just started experimenting in NJ about two weeks ago in Asbury Park and Belmar. In NYC, they are only operating in Williamsburg BK, but not via the app yet. They are successfully running fully based on the app in San Diego and many parts of Florida as we speak. It is still a work in progress.
Have fun relying on NJT and Ubers to get around while my total cost of ownership after accounting for no fuel costs and minimal depreciation is likely less than what you pay for that pass while having the freedom to drive across country if want. Hell my one regret is not having ordered at least a few more Tesla Model 3's back before September of last year where after delivery could've flipped each one for 10k plus profit each!
I've read articles of Teslas that at 250k or 300k miles the battery range degraded by 15 to 20% but wasnt actually needed to be replaced. I can live with making this car a junker after so many miles rather than bothering with battery replacement! Cost of driving 250k miles on a sedan that gets average of 20mpg at 4 dollars a gallon comes to $50k, which is a good deal over the 37k I bought my base Tesla model 3 last year for (And can still sell now for a 10k to 15k profit over what I paid if wanted to!)
That said I've calculated to saving approximately $400 to $500 per month in gas alone based on how much we drive at a rate of 20k miles per year. We do have solar panels on our roof which means 0 electricity bills for us but if didnt have there is a free L2 charger a 5 minute walk from our house at a library parking lot which many local residents take advantage of. Those who can avail free charging can save even the cheaper cost of electricity as compared to gas.
Unfortunately such cars seem to give out political vibes nowadays. I'm by no means a environmentalist or "lefty" and during a recent road trip in the rural deep south of the US sometimes felt was being intentionally tailgated by Ford/Chevy pickup trips (they can go expletive themselves paying $5 a gallon!) to attempt to intimidate me due to driving the Tesla as I think may have been labeled as an environmentalist/tree hugger and supporter of the current administration. I know full well that driving the EV is by no means giving any benefit to the environment with the resources required to produce the car and the how most of the electricity is produced when plugging in the car. It was purely a economical decision to drive this (and also quite fun on road trips too with the autopilot), am taking advantage of financial incentives that the state and federal governments have given that makes it a big money saver over ICE!
I appreciate anecdotes like this, because it demonstrates that you can absolutely, 100% sell EVs without ever once mentioning the environment. While making an EV requires far more natural resource use up-front, over time the environmental cost balances out with ICE cars. I think it takes 6 years or so of driving an EV to offset the resources required to make one.
Nevertheless, you demonstrate the value proposition posed by EVs in a way that non-liberals should appreciate. Unless you're a car guy who loves tinkering, driving a manual, etc., driving an EV is just a superior experience. EVs save you money, and should continue to be an even better value proposition in the future.
Same goes for solar! Even if it weren't good for the environment to install panels, it saves consumers money. The technology is getting better, and getting much cheaper as well. Perhaps people can use buzzwords that resonate with conservatives to sell EVs and solar? Energy independence! Self sufficiency! These technologies are also a good inflation hedge! Do we really think the price at the pump will fall below $3 anytime soon? With energy costs rising, net metering means your solar panels will be an even better value proposition in the future if you buy now. Sound economics there.
Last edited by midnight_thunder; 08-04-2022 at 12:09 PM..
Reason: typos
That’s really close to 4 miles per Kwh. And remember, I’m driving the performance model. What ICE gets remotely close to the rated EPA mileage at higher speeds? None of my 20+ ICE cars ever did. Our Outback does about 27 on the highway. It’s rated for over 30.
Our Forester (turbo 2.0L, because the 2.5L is too anemic for NJ merges) hit 30mpg on mostly highway driving recently, doing about 75mph mostly. It's rated for 27mpg highway, so that's pretty good.
I have the 4cyl Outback Touring. It’s criminal they put that engine in that sized car.
That's why, when I bought my 2011 Outback, I opted for the 3.6 liter six cylinder. The power of that engine is nothing short of amazing, but I'm not using it to its full potential currently--until gas prices recede a bit.
My experience with that car has been so positive that my brother bought a 2021 Outback Touring XT with the turbo-charged engine last year, and even though it's only a 4 cylinder, it's even a bit faster than my six-cylinder Outback.
Within a few months, I will be driving a new Lexus NX450h+, a plug-in hybrid which will allow me to do all of my local shopping on just battery power.
I know full well that driving the EV is by no means giving any benefit to the environment with the resources required to produce the car and the how most of the electricity is produced when plugging in the car.
I would debate that statement. As of 2021, ~40% electricity is generated using either renewables (wind, solar, etc.) or nuclear. NJ generates ~52% using renewables and nuclear. So cleaner energy as opposed to coal or natural gas. This number will only increase YoY as we expand the renewable energy program. Plus, depending on what survey you use, a sizeable percentage of EV users tend to have solar. So as we transition gradually towards EV, we will also transition to renewable, and make an impact on the environment by not only consuming clean energy for the automobiles but also for the house.
I would debate that statement. As of 2021, ~40% electricity is generated using either renewables (wind, solar, etc.) or nuclear. NJ generates ~52% using renewables and nuclear. So cleaner energy as opposed to coal or natural gas. This number will only increase YoY as we expand the renewable energy program. Plus, depending on what survey you use, a sizeable percentage of EV users tend to have solar. So as we transition gradually towards EV, we will also transition to renewable, and make an impact on the environment by not only consuming clean energy for the automobiles but also for the house.
One point to add is that, even if your source of power is a natural gas power plant, that power plant is far more efficient at turning gas to energy than an ICE car. So even if CO2 is emitted as a result of plugging in a Tesla, said Tesla owner is still reducing their carbon footprint compared against driving an ICE car.
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