Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you ever look at any site that measures air quality for the US, New Jersey (especially northern NJ, I believe) has some of the most polluted air in the country, along with California.
My boyfriend's family lives in Saddle River, and a few years ago there was a scare there because some wells tested had rocket fuel in the water. No one has any idea how it got there, but nevertheless there was rocket fuel in the water and everyone had to have their water tested. It was a carcinogen.
I know all about the cancer scare in Toms River and I believe it's real and would never, never, never drink the water ever again. My mom lives in Toms River and she has purchased bottled water ever since the rumor even the Ciba situation was supposibly taken care of. Why take chances. Really?!?! I will say there is a great chance in getting cancer living in the more polluted areas of NJ by just breathing the air such as the central/northern areas. Just drive along the NJ Turnpike and the smell is enough to make you vomit. NJ overall does have high pollution, however, as you go farther south, it's probably less of a risk.
I hesitate to get involved with a thread like this because it invariably leads to an argument with conspiracy theory types, what I call environmental wacko's and those who can retell one anacdotel story after another. ........There...that outta PO a bunch of folks
You CANNOT take a small data sample...compare it to the "average or normal" and come to any valid conclusions. The average is just that..an average. It's the sum of the samples divided by the number of samples. For any sample, if it is well above ,, or well below the average value that fact in and of itself means NOTHING.........NOTHING.
This is not the proper forum for a indepth mathmatical discussion of statistics, (and that's not field of expertise) but I've had enough experience with a couple of studies involving cancer rates versus microwave radiation exposure to understand the big misconceptions. From a team of statisticians let me pass on this non-math example which if you "noodle" it a bit will give you good insight into lots of the chicken little reporting that the news media is so fond of passing along.
A thought experiment. Take a flour sifter into an enclosed empty room with a clean dark floor. At arms length sift flour onto the floor for say one minute. Then slowly retreat away from the area and wait 10 minutes. When you return you will see a large dusty area on the floor which is "whiter" in the center and more of less uniformly becomes less white as you look further away from the center. Thus far everything is exactly what you'd expect to see. Now..get a magifiying glass and get on your knees. Carefully begin to examine the floor. You will find areas where in a small area there are almost no particles of flour dust. Look elsewhere and you will find a small patch where there are many flour particles...some might even be clumped together... And the over there...just a little bit to the side is another patch where there is only one particle. What does it all mean ???...NOTHING And...that generally includes those anacdotel exceptions you're about to tell me about.
It's the nature of random distribution. It doesn't mean that the surface will be uniform..infact..if it's truly random it's certain that it will NOT be uniform. There are no special forces at work that keep the flour particles from some areas while at the same time causing them the accumulate in above average numbers in other areas. It's RANDOM and there will always be areas above and below the average particle count. No magic, no special cases, no unseen forces at work behind the scene.
With this example in mind and bit of scientific skepticism you'll find that most of the "sky is falling" talk from the mass news media is BS.
Excellent post !!!!!!!!!
Here's someone who took the time to do research on both sides of the coin. It's a shame a lot of people believe what they read in newpapers is the complete truth.
The situation in Toms River in which no one has ever admitted blame. Is blown out of purportion by activists with an agenda. As noble as their efforts are. The truth is nobody really knows for certain if it was just chance that caused these kids to get sick or something else.
The media for years has been reporting what the activists have told them. I found an artical, if you google toms river cancer cluster and look for "Findings vs. Feelings" . It will give you another point of view. Please read it and decide for yourself.
Last edited by Stone28; 07-12-2007 at 08:45 AM..
Reason: the link I posted did not work
This is perhaps unscientific, maybe not. If you are looking at a specific neighborhood, ask about people's pets. I know in my area we have had what I would consider a moderate cluster amount of cancer (lymphoma) in companion animals such as dogs and cats. My Scotty died of cancer at aged 8 and my next door neighbors 2 dogs died within weeks of each other of liver related cancers. I don't know if it's lawn chemicals (we don't use them) that a neighbors' lawn service use or well water or what. But I think cancers in a specific enviornment show up in animals first.... a heads up, so to speak. Our neighborhood group has actually discussed this.
It's sad. I've heard 4 situations in the past 2 months of ppl very close to me being DX with some type of cancer. We are drinking, eating, or living in something that our bodies just can't handle.
All this money for research? Is it actually accomplishing anything for the cure? I know it alleviates the strain and helps prolong life expectancy,but what about a cure?
Millions and millions raised annually.
We can send a probe to mars, map the genetic code, but we can't gain any ground on a cure for cancer, MS, Aids?
JBrown,
I agree mostly with what you are saying, however, There are always going to be specific situations in different towns that may directly affect these statistics. The town I grew up in housed a sewage treatment plant on the water which released various gases in the air and contaminated the neighborhood to burn off sewage. We would have certain smells, and the kids got a kick out of the flames that would come from the top of the facility (yikes) It is ran by the DEP so naturally the government covered the speculations up with statistical breakdowns but having lived there I can say with absolute certainty (on my block alone 10 people were diagnosed with lung cancer within a 2 year span. They varied in age by 40-55) that facility was directly linked to the various health conditions of the residents. Years later it was confirmed via the news that this specific area had high volumes of radiation. Many cases of asthma, nuerological defects, and cancer were found in the area.
I would assume that all the stats have been figured out and follwed through and double checked when, and it's not just the media, the word on the street is that NJ has an alarmingly HIGH rate of cancer. Especially breast cancer and that is COMPARED to the averages in other states.
Yeah, it's an average. It's an average that is calculated and compares a state as populated as California or a city like NYC with NJ to a town in po-dunk USA.
It's not as complicated as it's been made out to seem. I see no conspiracy theory at all.
My x is from Montvale, NJ and while I was dating him years ago 8 people on his small block died of cancer! They tested the ground for radon and did find some but they said not enough to cause cancer. That was strange to have that many neighbors die of cancer on one small block.
My Dad is a survivor of Colon Cancer and my closest girlfriend just lost her battle three weeks ago to Ovarian Cancer....both grew up in N.J.
I grew up in Avenel. Because of US Metals in Carteret it was quite well known that if you lived within a 10 mile radius of Carteret you had a 50//50 chance of getting cancer.
Wouldn't ya know it, When I was 40 I was diagnosed with cancer. I lived in Avenel for some 20 years. I can remember waking up with a different color powder like dust on our cars every morning from the crap that US Metals spewed out during the night. From my bedroom window I remember watching that famous flame burning high in the sky from that tall tower. It was the way toxins were burned to what they believed to be harmless at the time.
My best friend worked at US Metals. He said they saved up all the polution all day long in big giant hot air balloons and when it got dark (and the DEP went home) they released all that toxic junk into the air. He said they dumped chemicals down the storm sewer nightly that disolved concrete. Which means all that leached deep into our drinking water.
Oh........Im 10 years cancer free after 2 surgeries !!!
I grew up in Waldwick, NJ. Quite a few of the people I knew from school and the neighborhood have had bouts with one cancer or another at some time. A lot of the blame can go for the heavy industries in the Mahwah area who dumped into the brook that ran through much of Bergen County. Bio-Craft Labs in Waldwick was also fined heavily for dumping, and much of their liquid waste went into the ground near the artesian wells that supplied the town with drinking water.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Bigger Concerns in Central/Northern NJ
