Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-10-2008, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,409 posts, read 28,749,831 times
Reputation: 12075

Advertisements

[quote=TheEmissary;5206521]Yes kate, - you got it! That old NJ Supreme Court decision made it all possible. When I lived in Paterson, I kept my eye on the school budget. Right now, it's about $550,000,000! There are 23,000 homeowners in Paterson. If you do the math each homeowner would have to cough up nearly $24,000 just for the "school" portion of their property tax. The per pupil expenditures for a student at Eastside High School are about $17,000 vs $15,000 for Ridgewood High School. I think the "security" for that school probably "eats up the $2000 difference alone. Do you really think that the average Paterson homeowner could or would foot the bill for that kind of money? NCLB would turn into "every child left behind". Most large NJ cities pay only 10-15% of the cost of educating their students. Without the Abbott money, these school systems would self destruct in short order. Basically, Abbott money is the price suburban NJ pays to keep myriad Section 8 people from invading their public school systems! Remember the Mt Laurel decision? That one involved building affordable housing in every town. That went over like a lead balloon in the suburbs, so the money was given to all those "distressed cities" which squandered it away in short order.

NJ is just "enjoying" the results of their short-sighted education and housing policies. I always wondered when the suburbs would figure out that their taxpayers are not an endless source of revenue. Here in NC, the school systems are county-run so we don't have all those $180,000 superindentents every 2 sq miles. Here teachers start at ~$30,000 and have to pay $6000 for family health insurance coverage for a year. I never thought I'd feel sorry for teachers! But the attitude down here is, if you don't like those terms, don't let the door hit you in the @ss! I do enjoy my $1100 tax bill from my town tho! [/QUOte

URGH!!!! You know I wouldn't mind so much if a good deal of that money wasn't wasted and down the tubes....I still read my hometown newspaper, The Jersey Journal, and when i read of what goes on within their public schools it makes my blood boil!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,409 posts, read 28,749,831 times
Reputation: 12075
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
EEEPNJ - When those kids get to high school those costs will easily double!

Yeah, I think POPE JOHN in Sparta is up to 10K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:04 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,499,190 times
Reputation: 6777
[quote=njkate;5206910]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
Yes kate, - you got it! That old NJ Supreme Court decision made it all possible. When I lived in Paterson, I kept my eye on the school budget. Right now, it's about $550,000,000! There are 23,000 homeowners in Paterson. If you do the math each homeowner would have to cough up nearly $24,000 just for the "school" portion of their property tax. The per pupil expenditures for a student at Eastside High School are about $17,000 vs $15,000 for Ridgewood High School. I think the "security" for that school probably "eats up the $2000 difference alone. Do you really think that the average Paterson homeowner could or would foot the bill for that kind of money? NCLB would turn into "every child left behind". Most large NJ cities pay only 10-15% of the cost of educating their students. Without the Abbott money, these school systems would self destruct in short order. Basically, Abbott money is the price suburban NJ pays to keep myriad Section 8 people from invading their public school systems! Remember the Mt Laurel decision? That one involved building affordable housing in every town. That went over like a lead balloon in the suburbs, so the money was given to all those "distressed cities" which squandered it away in short order.

NJ is just "enjoying" the results of their short-sighted education and housing policies. I always wondered when the suburbs would figure out that their taxpayers are not an endless source of revenue. Here in NC, the school systems are county-run so we don't have all those $180,000 superindentents every 2 sq miles. Here teachers start at ~$30,000 and have to pay $6000 for family health insurance coverage for a year. I never thought I'd feel sorry for teachers! But the attitude down here is, if you don't like those terms, don't let the door hit you in the @ss! I do enjoy my $1100 tax bill from my town tho! [/QUOte

URGH!!!! You know I wouldn't mind so much if a good deal of that money wasn't wasted and down the tubes....I still read my hometown newspaper, The Jersey Journal, and when i read of what goes on within their public schools it makes my blood boil!!
Yes kate, - If they still had students like us, they wouldn't be in such sad shape! When I check the current SAT scores of my old HS, I want to vomit. I suspect that if you sent the schools of NJ's cities the entire cost of the Iraq War, the test results wouldn't change much!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:05 AM
 
5,340 posts, read 13,958,231 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
Catholic schools teachers run the gamut. Many are, as Tahiti says, part of two income households. When my fiancee started teaching at a Catholic school in North Jersey she was making $27K per year! She was living at home, had no car payment, etc...so it worked out, but had she not gotten a job in the public schools we certainly would not own a house. Many of the women she worked with were married to guys with well paying jobs in the city.



Let me ask you something-what would you say if you found out the teacher teaching your child's science class majored in early Russian literature in college? You'd most certainly flip out and go to the school board and raise a stink right? Of course you would-but this would never happen because in public school you have to CERTIFIED to teach subjects. In Catholic school you do not. Plenty of the folks my fiancee worked with were not certified to teach the subjects they were teaching their students-ESPECIALLY with regard to math and science. Why would people with math and science backgrounds teach in Catholic schools when they can't even make a decent salary in the public schools? Am I bashing Catholic education? As a practicing Catholic and graduate of a Catholic college absolutely not-just adding a little dose of a reality to another fantastical discussion about teachers.
This is not true across the board.

As I stated, there are good and bad in all types of schools, and yes, good and bad teachers in all schools too.

With Catholic (or any private) school it is up to the PARENT to do their homework.

My kid's school has teachers that are as qualified as public schools and they do not hire anyone without certification. I have compared my kids work with that of the kids in public school in our town and it is FAR superior to what they are learning. However, I drive 6 towns away and pass a good 10 other Catholic Schools on the way that I would not put my kids in.

When I was in HS I was in public (after one year at the now defunct St. Michael's in Union City). Even though it was not a good public school, when I went there Sophomore year, I could see even in this BAD city school, I could get a much better education than I would have at St. Michael's. However, my HS boyfriend went to St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City - let me tell you, he got a WONDERFUL education there. Back then I used to think how "lucky" I was that I did not have to work as hard as he did. But trust me, in the end, he is the lucky one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:11 AM
 
5,340 posts, read 13,958,231 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
It has to do with the fact that Catholic school teachers aren't necessarily taking a vow of poverty and living on scraps. You just went on about how Catholic teachers "sure aren't in it for the money" and should be congratulated. If your spouse is making big money then how are you "suffering" by teaching in the Catholic schools?
That is a PRETTY big assumption!

And I agree w/ njkate... at lot of public school teachers spouses work good paying jobs too. That's a foolish assumption.

Trust me, I have kids in Catholic School, I'm very involved in my Church (which has a school that my kids DO NOT attend) and I do a lot of work with other Catholic Schools. I have numerous friends who are teachers in these places. There are 2 types of teachers there:

1) Those who want to get a few years experience to TRY and get a job in the Public Schools.

and

2) Those who are there because they want to be. NOT many have husbands pulling in huge checks... they are there because they prefer the environment, they love their job, or the kids... not because hubby is an investment banker.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:12 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,859 posts, read 9,986,002 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
and just how do YOU know if the teachers spouse is making BIG money?????
You have a crystal ball or something, can I borrow it if you do
Women are very perceptive as I'm sure you know. My fiancee can spout off the brand names of clothing, handbags, etc...like breathing. She's also good at spotting diamonds. I'm clueless in this respect, but I make up for it with the fact that I can tell the difference between a direct and indirect injected diesel by the sound and accurately guess the date of a John Deere tractor by the body work-it all evens out. What am I getting at? You don't get a huge rock on your finger, a Coach handbag, and a Mercedes by working at a Catholic school and being married to someone who makes $40K a year living in North Jersey. I suppose these folks could come from family money, have won the lottery, or just have oodles of credit card debt, but I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
I for one am thankful my parents paid the tuition and sent me to Catholic school versus Jersey City public schools
Money well spent-my fiancee taught in a bad area where parents scraped to get their kids into the Catholic school rather than send them to the public school. She wanted to stay but we wanted to start a life. I'm no millionaire so there was no way we could buy a home on her salary at the time combined with mine. I hope that one day she might be able to go back after we have kids, but right now we need good salaries, good health benefits (the Catholic schools' package was terrible), and a retirement plan. We live very simply and struggle at times to make ends meet even with her public school salary, but we're happy to be together. Yes, it's true, even teachers have to pay high property taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:13 AM
 
5,340 posts, read 13,958,231 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
You need to keep an eye on how they cut some of those costs however-when you're teaching from a history book that still calls Russia the "Evil Empire" (I know they're heading that way once again, but I digress...) you have to sit back and wonder if it's time to spend a little money on supplies...
Badfish, again, you are generalizing WAY too much.

GOOD and BAD in all.

Trust me when I tell you - I checked over 25 schools before deciding where I'd send my kids (public, charter, catholic, private) and you can't touch what they are learning. AND they are not only learning academics...which is important to me as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:15 AM
 
5,340 posts, read 13,958,231 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
EEEPNJ - When those kids get to high school those costs will easily double!
Well, High Schools tend to be $6-15. The better ones are $10-15. The highest would be Delbarton which if I'm not mistaken is around $20 now.

I'm already saving for it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,409 posts, read 28,749,831 times
Reputation: 12075
Quote:
Originally Posted by EEEPNJ View Post
Well, High Schools tend to be $6-15. The better ones are $10-15. The highest would be Delbarton which if I'm not mistaken is around $20 now.

I'm already saving for it!
Do some of the Catholic High Schools still offer scholarships?? Even a partial would help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:18 AM
 
5,340 posts, read 13,958,231 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuCullin View Post
Voucher programs aren't for use with private schools specifically; consider Ireland as an example. Parents are able to decide which school their children go to, with the schools receiving whats called a per-head fee, as well as salary for teachers. Should the quality of education decline, and parents opt for education at another (publicly paid for) institution, the decline results in a loss of the per-head fee going to the institution, and then salary cuts thereafter. Its puts the responsibility of a quality education on the educators, and not the state or federal education associations. It puts responsibility into the hands of the administrators to take care of their school system instead of sucking out tax dollars from the budget and into their wallets.
Not a terrible idea, but I don't know how it would work here. Everyone would want to be in the better schools, and unless it was done by lottery, how would that be fair? And say it was done on a county by county basis, I'd love trying to explain to the taxpayer in Tenafly that their child was not chosen by the lottery and will now have to go to school in Garfield. I'm not saying it is not a good idea... I'm just saying you can see where it would end up here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top