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I just simply don't believe ALL first time homebuyers are screwed. You live in Vineland which, let's face it, is INEXPENSIVE, even by "cheaper" state standards. If you (generic YOU) can't buy down there, I've got news for you, you're going to struggle somewhere else too.
Whatever happened to getting your college education, getting a job, SAVING your money for 5+ years for a downpayment, and buying a MODEST house, townhouse or condo? There are plenty of places in this state where a couple in their late 20's can afford even if they make a very attainable salary of $50K each, AND in towns in counties like Essex and Morris, relatively close to NYC.
It's not an inalienable right for everyone to own a 4000+ sq ft house (personally, I don't know why anyone would want to, but to each their own).
And, I'd really like to hear a place where taxes have DOUBLED in 2 years. If this happened, I guarantee there was a townwide assessment, and these people were not paying their fair share. Still, DOUBLED taxes IMHO is highly suspect. Even Nutley's recent reassess wasn't nearly that bad.
Sorry, you have missed a previous post of mine.
FYI: I have a college education, I graduated at the top of my class, with highest honors. I wouldn't even mention it except the fact you seem to have an entirely erroneous picture of who I am and what I'm like. In fact, I'll even give you more info (which I ordinarily don't like to do), just because I feel you don't really have a clue: We were doing fine and in fact bought property in NJ with 5 acres for under $80,000. Then I had an accident which brought years of medical bills, rehab and am still not the same and never will be. It can happen to anyone. BTW, I am well past my 20s and so is my husband. He has been a nurse for over 36 years. So maybe you should not lump everybody together who has issues with high NJ real estate prices and what they want out of life.
P.S. $50,000 each is NOT a very attainable salary in South Jersey. And I didn't say property taxes, I said property prices have doubled in many instances.
I have stated that you can't buy a house with any kind of acreage in NJ without going over $300,000. I DON'T want a McMansion, I actually have a great dislike of them.
We are looking at properties outside Roanoke for under $200,000 and they're not trailer park stuff either. Most have from 2-9 acres. The taxes are from $650-$850 a year. Electricity is approx. 1/2 cost per kilowatt then it is in NJ, which is why a huge percentage of Virginians heat their homes in winter with electric.
So please don't assume that everyone wants to live in a city, town, or these anonymous Twilight Zone type developments. I want nature, the stars and my animals, not some loud, obnoxious neighbors or a neighborhood full of snobs.
No offense but I already posted (following someone else who feels likewise about having a bit of land and privacy) our needs and wants. I want to have some fun with my horse before I kick off this mortal coil! I never had any desire to live in the NJ/NY metro area or anywhere north of Trenton and never will. Just my personal tastes don't run in that direction.
Last edited by DecayingAngel; 08-06-2007 at 10:32 AM..
Reason: Add about property values doubling
Born and raised in NYC and lived in NJ for years. Resident of NC for almost 15 years. I miss my family and friends and all those things you can't find anywhere else but no I would never come back. I love not living on top of my neighbor, not jarring my teeth on the wonderful pot holes. I certainly don't miss the traffic. I will always love NYC and visit as often as I can but it is always nice to come home to NC.
FYI: I have a college education, I graduated at the top of my class, with highest honors. I wouldn't even mention it except the fact you seem to have an entirely erroneous picture of who I am and what I'm like. In fact, I'll even give you more info (which I ordinarily don't like to do), just because I feel you don't really have a clue: We were doing fine and in fact bought property in NJ with 5 acres for under $80,000. Then I had an accident which brought years of medical bills, rehab and am still not the same and never will be. It can happen to anyone. BTW, I am well past my 20s and so is my husband. He has been a nurse for over 36 years. So maybe you should not lump everybody together who has issues with high NJ real estate prices and what they want out of life.
P.S. $50,000 each is NOT a very attainable salary in South Jersey. And I didn't say property taxes, I said property prices have doubled in many instances.
I have stated that you can't buy a house with any kind of acreage in NJ without going over $300,000. I DON'T want a McMansion, I actually have a great dislike of them.
We are looking at properties outside Roanoke for under $200,000 and they're not trailer park stuff either. Most have from 2-9 acres. The taxes are from $650-$850 a year. Electricity is approx. 1/2 cost per kilowatt then it is in NJ, which is why a huge percentage of Virginians heat their homes in winter with electric.
So please don't assume that everyone wants to live in a city, town, or these anonymous Twilight Zone type developments. I want nature, the stars and my animals, not some loud, obnoxious neighbors or a neighborhood full of snobs.
No offense but I already posted (following someone else who feels likewise about having a bit of land and privacy) our needs and wants. I want to have some fun with my horse before I kick off this mortal coil! I never had any desire to live in the NJ/NY metro area or anywhere north of Trenton and never will. Just my personal tastes don't run in that direction.
i must've missed a post because you took my comments too personally.
First: i thought I was clear when I said "if GENERIC YOU can't afford vineland" - generic meaning NOT YOU PERSONALLY. so i don't know why you felt you needed to give me your history.
Second: i never said $50K was easily obtainable in S. Jersey. again, i said you can buy a starter home in parts of Essex and Morris county with 2 people making an attainable salary of $50K each. I NEVER mentioned S. Jersey! of course, S. Jersey is cheaper so a lower salary will go further.
Third: Yes, there are places that are cheaper than S. Jersey, I don't dispute that, but S.Jersey in your area is affordable compared to the rest of the state and MANY MANY other places in this country - don't you agree? I'm not lumping you in others, I'm trying to seek the real reason people bash and a lot of times it's displaced anger. If you don't like it here, that's fine, but you don't need to stretch the truth to make your point. which brings me to #4.....
Fourth: You never mentioned where this place was where taxes doubled in 2 years. I'm not trying to be a b****, but I'd like to investigate it myself because I find it VERY hard to believe.
Most people that have left the NY/NJ area have done so due to ridiculously high real estate prices and taxes. If money were not an object, would you choose to come back from wherever you relocated to (mostly North Carolina, Florida from what I gather)? Just curious.
My husband and I came to Statesville, NC in 2004, from Upstate NY. We both have high paying jobs that we feel now would be unwise to leave. The people in Statesville have been so kind and friendly. The downside is the heat. (We are reaching record high's of 100 this week.) I miss the cooler tempatures and small town feel of Upstate NY, but not all the snow we use to get. We hate to give up our jobs, so we have been searching around for a smaller, cooler climate without having to spend "bucko bucks" in the NC mountains. Have found a lovely place called Galax, VA. That is where we would like to re-locate if only on week-ends for now.
FYI: I have a college education, I graduated at the top of my class, with highest honors. I wouldn't even mention it except the fact you seem to have an entirely erroneous picture of who I am and what I'm like. In fact, I'll even give you more info (which I ordinarily don't like to do), just because I feel you don't really have a clue: We were doing fine and in fact bought property in NJ with 5 acres for under $80,000. Then I had an accident which brought years of medical bills, rehab and am still not the same and never will be. It can happen to anyone. BTW, I am well past my 20s and so is my husband. He has been a nurse for over 36 years. So maybe you should not lump everybody together who has issues with high NJ real estate prices and what they want out of life.
P.S. $50,000 each is NOT a very attainable salary in South Jersey. And I didn't say property taxes, I said property prices have doubled in many instances.
I have stated that you can't buy a house with any kind of acreage in NJ without going over $300,000. I DON'T want a McMansion, I actually have a great dislike of them.
We are looking at properties outside Roanoke for under $200,000 and they're not trailer park stuff either. Most have from 2-9 acres. The taxes are from $650-$850 a year. Electricity is approx. 1/2 cost per kilowatt then it is in NJ, which is why a huge percentage of Virginians heat their homes in winter with electric.
So please don't assume that everyone wants to live in a city, town, or these anonymous Twilight Zone type developments. I want nature, the stars and my animals, not some loud, obnoxious neighbors or a neighborhood full of snobs.
No offense but I already posted (following someone else who feels likewise about having a bit of land and privacy) our needs and wants. I want to have some fun with my horse before I kick off this mortal coil! I never had any desire to live in the NJ/NY metro area or anywhere north of Trenton and never will. Just my personal tastes don't run in that direction.
I want to wish you the Best of Luck. Some here think NJ is the best and think nothing of paying insane taxes.
In Manalapan, nj, I checked on Realtor.com and for $208,000 you get a 3 bedroom 2 bath trailor. It doesn't say trailor but Bucks Head was part of Mt Laurel Affordable housing. I think when they were new in the 90S they paid $35,000 for them. It's near expensive homes but in proximty of the noise of Raceway Pk,, yuk, and for $280,000 it lists yet another trailor, and claims its waterfront, NOT. there is no water in Manalapan, except maybe a pond in an overpriced subdivision.
Kudos to the person who started this thread. I have learned ever so much, good and bad.
About property taxes: our local paper had published an article about how crazy and unfair NJ taxes are. It's from a website called Liberty and Prosperity. Don't know anything about the site as I just visited it to retrieve the article. Here's what it says. Would like to hear comments on this. It's just not fair!
Liberty & Justice for All??? Not with NJ Real Estate Taxes!!!
Outdated Assessments, Special Deals Make Mockery of Constitution.
By Seth Grossman. (Published in Current, Gazette, and Wildwood Leader Newspapers of South Jersey on August 1, 2007. Similar article published in South Jersey Insider Magazine, August, 2007.)
“No state. . . shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” United States Constitution -- 14th Amendment Adopted 1868.
“All real property assessed and taxed locally. . . shall be assessed according to the same standard of value. . . and such real property shall be taxed at the general tax rate of the taxing district in which the property is situated. . . New Jersey Constitution—Article 8, Section 1.
“Constitutions are made of paper. Bayonets are made of steel.” Haitian proverb.
Basic Skills Quiz: A home in Mays Landing (Hamilton Township) in Atlantic County is worth $220,000. The combined 2007 real estate tax rate for local purpose, county, library, and school taxes there is $3.91 per $100. How much is this year’s tax bill?
A. $8,602
B. $3,910
C. $1,137
D. Any of the above.
“A” should be the obvious answer. You multiply 3.91% by the true value of every $220,000 home in the township and end up with $8,602.
But in Mays Landing, and most places in New Jersey, “D” makes more sense. Some owners of $220,000 homes in Mays Landing pay $8,602 in taxes each year. Others with identical homes pay $3,910. Those with $220,000 homes in the Fairways Development pay only $1,137 per year. And farmers, seniors, veterans, and businesses with friends in high places each pay taxes at their own sweetheart rates.
It is like this all over New Jersey. This is a major cause of our state’s culture of corruption. How did it happen?
First, we let our tax assessors break the law every year.
“(T)he assessor shall . . . determine the full and fair value of each parcel of real property situate in the taxing district at such price as, in his judgment it would sell for at a fair and bona fide sale by private contract on October 1 next preceding the (current tax year). . . “ New Jersey Statutes Title 54: Section 4-23.
That means, every assessor should update every tax assessment EVERY year. But they don’t. The Mays Landing assessor has not updated his assessments since 1992. The Atlantic City assessor has not done it 1982. Imagine collecting sales tax using prices from 25 years ago!
Most politicians and voters are OK with this. Although many owners of newly built homes and businesses get whacked with high taxes at current prices, the great majority of voters pay far less based on outdated values. In 1776, our founders invented constitutions to protect minorities from oppression by majorities. But constitutions are rarely followed these days. So dozens of $220,000 homes in Mays Landing pay only $3,910 in taxes because they were only worth $100,000 in 1992.
Second, the NJ Constitution has been amended by voters 12 times to give special tax breaks to farmers, flower growers, seniors, veterans, and surviving spouses (and now same-sex partners) of veterans. And local politicians have so badly abused the original 1948 Constitution which allows tax breaks to “redevelop blighted areas”, that anyone who pays taxes at the regular rate feels like a chump.
And finally, there is the “Manufactured Home Taxation Act of 1983”. This allows 465 owners of $220,000 homes at the Fairways in Mays Landing to pay only $1,137 in property taxes each year because (a) the homes were built in a factory and shipped to the site, (b) all 465 homes are on land owned by a single owner. This means the Fairways homeowners pay zero tax on their homes, and only $825 per year on their share of the clubhouse, and raw land that their homes sit on. That land is assessed at $9,806,300, or $22,000 per home. At the 3.91% tax rate, each home pays $825 per year in taxes.
State law lets the Township Committee charge these 465 homeowners their full share of the cost of local and county government, and the library and public schools with a “Municipal Service Fee”. But to buy votes they charge only $312 per year, bringing the total tax on a Fairways home to $1,137 per year. But with a close election coming, even that is too much. Next week, the Democrat Township Committee will propose eliminating the Municipal Service Fee completely. This will bring the total Fairways Tax bill down to $825 per year—enough to buy roughly 600 votes for the November election!
I doubt that anyone in their right mind would insist that the assessors assess every year as it will undoubtedly mean an increase in taxes! Especially if 20+ years have passed since the last assessment! I am sure those people are keeping a very low profile!
I am not sure exactly what your point is DecayingAngel. It sounds like some people are not paying enough because they have not been assessed in many years (and when they do get assessed, they will be in for quite a shock), while others are afforded special deals, and as a result still others are paying too much - their fare share plus everyone else's share.
To me it seems like the first thing to understand is where do our taxes go? How much of our hardearned money is used to line pockets? How much of it can be redirected to the things that actually matter? Answer that and then you can figure out what the appropriate level of taxation should be, and then reassess everyone accordingly.
Is it possible to get an accounting of exactly where the money goes right down to the penny?
I doubt that anyone in their right mind would insist that the assessors assess every year as it will undoubtedly mean an increase in taxes! Especially if 20+ years have passed since the last assessment! I am sure those people are keeping a very low profile!
I am not sure exactly what your point is DecayingAngel. It sounds like some people are not paying enough because they have not been assessed in many years (and when they do get assessed, they will be in for quite a shock), while others are afforded special deals, and as a result still others are paying too much - their fare share plus everyone else's share.
To me it seems like the first thing to understand is where do our taxes go? How much of our hardearned money is used to line pockets? How much of it can be redirected to the things that actually matter? Answer that and then you can figure out what the appropriate level of taxation should be, and then reassess everyone accordingly.
Is it possible to get an accounting of exactly where the money goes right down to the penny?
Not entirely my views, I just posted it as an FYI. There are a lot of factors that go into taxes and other things as well. We know there is no really fair and just method of taxation.
I just wanted to get other people's thoughts. Please don't assume I posted it because I'm in agreement with any or all of what it says. But you must admit that there has to be more consistency in how taxation is determined.
I'm trying to remember what town it was--Brigantine? Margate?--been awhile since it was in the papers. But residents were up in arms because the assessors came around and were upping their homes' values left and right. Granted, these are fancy shore homes, many with an ocean view. They were suddenly hit with having to pay $12,000 and upwards in taxes. No doubt long overdue.
I doubt we will ever get a full report as to where tax monies go. That's probably true of any place one can think of. Always has been that way, and probably always will be.
It's a shame isn't it? So many memories--and there will be quite a culture shock when you relocate. We lived in South Dakota for 2 years while I attended the University there and sometimes I wondered if I was in the same country.
I moved to Nashville, no culture shock at All, I love it here. I did go to college here in the 70s, as an out of state student. I got accepted into Stonybrook but with the Vietnan war protests I felt safer here. Also, with the out of state fee it was less money and my parents did not have that, but did see 3 children finish college.
We left NJ 9 years ago for Charlotte, NC. It took at least 2 years for me to adjust -- northern NJ was like Mayberry with real downtowns compared to the anonymity of the new south. Now, it's a little harder than I thought to go home (despite what Bon Jovi's song says!). There are pros and cons to both places, but it's depressing to see how much housing costs in Bergen County -- we'll end up paying about 3- 4 times what we pay here for a house that's way less than what we live in now (and we're in a neighborhood with expensive homes to begin with in NC -- over 1 million, which apparently is an average price in NJ). To me, the advantages in NJ are education, job opportunities and family, but the lifestyle and weather here were something we ended up enjoying.
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would move but to a different state
But you must admit that there has to be more consistency in how taxation is determined.
