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Old 01-09-2009, 08:27 AM
 
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Neighborhoods in places like Brooklyn are getting to expensive for artists/musicians to live in so they are have to go somewhere. Do you see places like East Orange, Irvington, Newark, Jersey City(i know its on its way there already) becoming the new Bushwick? It would make sense because of the easy access to the city and cheap rent. But for some reason I just can't see East Orange being a artist haven. Even though I wish it was.
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Historic Downtown Jersey City
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Originally Posted by StrugglingMusician91 View Post
Neighborhoods in places like Brooklyn are getting to expensive for artists/musicians to live in so they are have to go somewhere. Do you see places like East Orange, Irvington, Newark, Jersey City(i know its on its way there already) becoming the new Bushwick? It would make sense because of the easy access to the city and cheap rent. But for some reason I just can't see East Orange being a artist haven. Even though I wish it was.
Downtown Jersey City has been an artist/musician community for at LEAST 10 years now. Actually, Downtown JC is now so expensive, that many of the artists have moved to Jersey City Heights, Journal Square, etc. So yes, JC is/has been there already.

As for the other towns, I don't think so, because there is not extremely easy and quick access to NYC. However, I could see Newark maybe becoming a bit gentrified, because of the PATH train.
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tommyc_37 View Post
Downtown Jersey City has been an artist/musician community for at LEAST 10 years now. Actually, Downtown JC is now so expensive, that many of the artists have moved to Jersey City Heights, Journal Square, etc. So yes, JC is/has been there already.

As for the other towns, I don't think so, because there is not extremely easy and quick access to NYC. However, I could see Newark maybe becoming a bit gentrified, because of the PATH train.
Do you think if those neighborhoods had 24/7 access to the city they would attract artists/musicians. Also I don't really consider artists/musicians moving in to be gentrification.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:10 AM
 
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Newark's big problem is the relative lack of quality architecture like you have in many New York boros. The Ironbound, which would otherwise be a great starting point for a gentrification in Newark, is mostly crappy housing stock. I don't know enough about the history of the city to know whether the current Ironbound housing stock is a replacement of older, nicer buildings, but if so it's a shame.

As has been said, JC is already gentrified to a large degree, and will continue to improve. If any of those other places are ripe for gentrification, Newark will be first because of the transportation. East Orange, maybe. I can't see Irvington ever getting there; it's got no easy access to NYC.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:52 AM
 
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no way to irvington, as it lacks passenger rail service. struggling artist types who need easy access to nyc tend to live in marginal neighborhoods like bushwick because they can hop on a train 24/7 to get to and from their gigs, not to mention the extreme proximity to manhattan. and as you probably know, a lot of artists (especially musicians) need to get around the city during the late night hours. imagine trying to get back to irvington from wiliamsburg or the lower east side at 3am? it's not going to be cheap or easy without a car. i suppose you could take the PATH to newark penn station and then catch a cab to irvington, but i don't see anyone willing to put up with a commute that long and expensive when they could just as easily live within walking distance of a PATH station in jersey city, harrison, or the ironbound.

irvington may be relatively close to manhattan, but it's still much farther than jersey city and brooklyn. why would someone choose irvington when there are other relatively affordable places with better mass transit access?

one thing that would be a major boost to the town is if it ever got connected to the newark city subway. i don't see that happening, though. and besides, newark would have to become a major artist enclave first in order for any spillover effect to occur in irvington.

similarly, i don't see east orange becoming a haven for artists. i realize that EO has train service to the city, but it doesn't run as frequently as a subway system, nor does it run late at night. and again, any artist presence would only occur after widespread gentrification in newark.

newark itself actually has a small community of artists. it isn't much, but they're scattered here and there. in 2007, there was an all-day festival right next to washington park that showcased the local artist community (not sure if the event happened again in 2008). i don't know if the city will ever become a major hub for artists, but if it does, it would have to start in the areas near penn station and then spread out from there.

and as tommyc has already mentioned, jersey city has had a community of artists for quite a while (dating back to the 1980s, if not earlier). it hasn't received a ton of notoriety or hype like brooklyn, but it's definitely there. it just remains a little bit under the radar because a) it's not in nyc, even though it's right across the river and b) it's new jersey, which is inherently unhip to the pretentious types who care about that kind of stuff.

luckily, there are many serious artists in JC who don't care about being hip and just want an affordable place to do their work.

Last edited by pbergen; 01-09-2009 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:10 AM
 
1,542 posts, read 5,746,822 times
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Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
Newark's big problem is the relative lack of quality architecture like you have in many New York boros. The Ironbound, which would otherwise be a great starting point for a gentrification in Newark, is mostly crappy housing stock. I don't know enough about the history of the city to know whether the current Ironbound housing stock is a replacement of older, nicer buildings, but if so it's a shame.
actually, i don't see newark's housing stock as a problem in attracting artists. williamsburg and bushwick are both notorious for their ugly row houses and other buildings with substandard aesthetics. believe me, if a neighborhood is close enough to manhattan, accessible enough, and cheap enough, artists will start to move in.

newark has little chance of become a major artist colony until all of jersey city's PATH-accessible neighborhoods become prohibitively expensive. and while downtown JC may be pricey, there are other areas in the city that are not too bad. so the population of artists in newark is likely to remain small for the time being.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Historic Downtown Jersey City
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Originally Posted by StrugglingMusician91 View Post
Do you think if those neighborhoods had 24/7 access to the city they would attract artists/musicians. Also I don't really consider artists/musicians moving in to be gentrification.
Ah, but you see, when the struggling artists and musicians move to a place, that is almost always the start of gentrification. See Brooklyn (especially Williamsburg/Bushwick), Long Island City Queens, Hoboken in the late 80's/early 90's, Jersey City late 90's - present, and more recently the South Bronx.
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pbergen View Post
actually, i don't see newark's housing stock as a problem in attracting artists. williamsburg and bushwick are both notorious for their ugly row houses and other buildings with substandard aesthetics. believe me, if a neighborhood is close enough to manhattan, accessible enough, and cheap enough, artists will start to move in.
Probably true, and I don't know enough about Williamsburg/Bushwick architecture to comment. I was just always surprised at the lack of nice brownstone (or even brick) townhouses in Newark's Ironbound section. There are a few nice patches here and there, but by and large it's full of A-frames and other generic vinyl-sided eyesores.

And although artists may live anywhere close and cheap enough, to take it to the next level you need the vanguard yuppies, and generally aesthetic-potential is a factor for those people.

Don't get me wrong, Ironbound has a lot going for it. I just see architecture as one of its biggest downsides.

(Although, someone could turn that old "Central Graphic Arts" building across from Penn Station into some pretty cool, centrally located loft apartments that I'm sure would be popular with artists.)
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
I was just always surprised at the lack of nice brownstone (or even brick) townhouses in Newark's Ironbound section. There are a few nice patches here and there, but by and large it's full of A-frames and other generic vinyl-sided eyesores.
very true. if i'm not mistaken, the ironbound (a.k.a. down neck) has always been a working class neighborhood so chances are that the housing was built cheaply for the blue collar laborers living in the area.

Quote:
And although artists may live anywhere close and cheap enough, to take it to the next level you need the vanguard yuppies, and generally aesthetic-potential is a factor for those people.

Don't get me wrong, Ironbound has a lot going for it. I just see architecture as one of its biggest downsides.

(Although, someone could turn that old "Central Graphic Arts" building across from Penn Station into some pretty cool, centrally located loft apartments that I'm sure would be popular with artists.)
i agree with this as well. there's a reason why the brownstone neighborhoods of brooklyn (brooklyn heights, cobble hill, carroll gardens, park slope, etc) and jersey city (paulus hook/van vorst park) were "rediscovered" in recent years. having that kind of classic, high quality residential infrastructure in place always gives a neighborhood a chance to revitalize, especially when combined with good mass transit.

there's no question that the ironbound has benefited greatly from its location next to major transit hub. as lively as ferry street is, imagine if the surrounding area was filled with brownstones?

there's some nice residential architecture in pockets of newark, but too many of the city's streets are lined with those ugly vinyl-sided houses that you referenced earlier.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:48 PM
 
124 posts, read 364,850 times
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Originally Posted by tommyc_37 View Post
Ah, but you see, when the struggling artists and musicians move to a place, that is almost always the start of gentrification. See Brooklyn (especially Williamsburg/Bushwick), Long Island City Queens, Hoboken in the late 80's/early 90's, Jersey City late 90's - present, and more recently the South Bronx.

I agree but we can't blame the creative types for this. We must blame the wannabe yuppies who only move to the neighborhood because it is "artsy" when in reality none of them are artists.
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