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Actually, I probably WOULD have shown your house to my buyers. But I would have made sure, up front and in writing, that you understood that I was representing that buyer, that I was NOT representing you in any way, that anything you told me would be told to the buyer, that you could count on me for honesty, promptness, and nothing else. I'm not giving you price advice, I'm not marketing your house, I'm not doing your legwork, and I'm not looking out for your interests in any way. I'm helping my client buy your house. (Which works just fine for me & my buyer, as I can usually negotiate a better deal for my client with an unrepresented seller, but that's a differnt thread.) I will not do extra work, and take extra liability, for no extra pay.
My point in all of this is that the AGENT AND THEIR CLIENT are the people who decide what the agent gets paid. And if the agent feels he is worth a certain amount, then who are you, or anyone else, to say, "Hey, take less, it's better than nothing."
I don't disagree with your first paragraph and that's basically what happened, but this agent happened to do all the legwork (and I got list after 4 days, so there was no issue with price or marketing).
I don't understand your 2nd paragraph however - if the SELLER is paying you, I'm not sure how you can say "AGENT AND THEIR CLIENT are the people who decide what the agent gets paid." The one who actually pays the $$$ at closing doesn't have any say whatsoever? (I'm not talking about your obligations to the seller, just the $$$ paid).
Here is an example, say you are brought a deal that allows you to walk with 100K from the sale of your home, after all expenses are paid. Why should you care if the Realtor is compensated 2% 3% 4% or even 5% as long as you got what you wanted and needed? Please don't come back to me with any comments about the buyer, as this is a hypothetical and only dealing with the thought pattern of a seller.
Why should the seller care? Oh I dunno, maybe the same reason that the realtor cares about being compensated 2%, 3%, 4%, or even 5%. If the realtor is going to make money, why should he/she care either? In fact, given that sales volume has been so low lately, I would suggest that both the seller lower the price and the agent simply ask for 3%. The seller will get it sold more quickly in a declining market and some lucky agent will get an easy closing because buyers are willing to jump in on the best priced homes on the market today quickly, regardless of the direction of the market.
Why should the seller care? Oh I dunno, maybe the same reason that the realtor cares about being compensated 2%, 3%, 4%, or even 5%. If the realtor is going to make money, why should he/she care either? In fact, given that sales volume has been so low lately, I would suggest that both the seller lower the price and the agent simply ask for 3%. The seller will get it sold more quickly in a declining market and some lucky agent will get an easy closing because buyers are willing to jump in on the best priced homes on the market today quickly, regardless of the direction of the market.
you did what I expected you would do, which is why I will agree to disagree with you, and not ask nor respond to any more of what you have to say. in the example given above what the Realtor is compensated should not be a concern to you as long as you receive what you were looking for.
For your example I would say you expect and want to get 100K but since you are being difficult you get 80K!!
I don't disagree with your first paragraph and that's basically what happened, but this agent happened to do all the legwork (and I got list after 4 days, so there was no issue with price or marketing).
I don't understand your 2nd paragraph however - if the SELLER is paying you, I'm not sure how you can say "AGENT AND THEIR CLIENT are the people who decide what the agent gets paid." The one who actually pays the $$$ at closing doesn't have any say whatsoever? (I'm not talking about your obligations to the seller, just the $$$ paid).
The one paying the money at closing DOES have a say. That's why this particular seller chose to not play with this buyer & their agent. I think she is being short sighted, however, by focusing on the agents commission instead of (as James points out) their net.
The way I would have negotiated this is to point out to the seller that the buyer & I have agreed that I am to be paid for helping them to purchase a home from an unrepresented seller. Further, I would explain that the only way for the agents commission to be included in the mortgagable amount is to have the seller agree to pay the fee from the proceeds of the sale. So the first step is getting you, the seller, to agree to pay my fee out of the proceeds of the sale. Because at the end of the day, my client is going to be willing to pay $X in total for your house. So long as you are ok with the concept of letting my fee come out of the proceeds, as would happen with a traditional sale, let's just work on negotiating a deal that nets you an acceptable amount.
you did what I expected you would do, which is why I will agree to disagree with you, and not ask nor respond to any more of what you have to say. in the example given above what the Realtor is compensated should not be a concern to you as long as you receive what you were looking for.
For your example I would say you expect and want to get 100K but since you are being difficult you get 80K!!
You don't get it, I can flip it around just as easily. Maybe the realtor is being difficult, and instead of getting 4%, she gets 0%, because he/she doesn't get the sale. There's a fine line between working with each other and working against each other to get things done.
Btw, you aren't suggesting a 20 thousand dollar decline on a property, are you? Besides, I'm willing to be the seller isn't even in the position of selling the thing at a 100k profit, or even a profit at all.
You don't get it, I can flip it around just as easily. Maybe the realtor is being difficult, and instead of getting 4%, she gets 0%, because he/she doesn't get the sale. There's a fine line between working with each other and working against each other to get things done.
Btw, you aren't suggesting a 20 thousand dollar decline on a property, are you? Besides, I'm willing to be the seller isn't even in the position of selling the thing at a 100k profit, or even a profit at all.
the 100K to 80K comment was directed at oak only as he is always being difficult and very rarely answering questions posed to him directly. Though a experenced negotiator can usually bring a unrepresented seller (fsbo) down more than enough to make it have been worth the fsbo's while to have just listed the home to start with. You can say what you want about your FSBO experence but that was in a totally different market, and those sorts of conditions are not likely to be back during your lifetime.
I do get it. If I am working with a true legit buyer, my chances of finding a home and getting through closing with a traditionally represented seller are much greater. Unless you Mrs. Unrepresented seller are sitting on a one of a kind must have home (very rare that this is the case) I probably can take this buyer and find some other home that is just as acceptable or even more acceptable to him or her.
Many on this forum will not like to hear this but many home buyers are scared of FSBO's. they see them as having something to hid otherwise they would have listed the home with a Realtor. Enough times to keep the stereotype going that is the case.
the 100K to 80K comment was directed at oak only as he is always being difficult and very rarely answering questions posed to him directly. Though a experenced negotiator can usually bring a unrepresented seller (fsbo) down more than enough to make it have been worth the fsbo's while to have just listed the home to start with. You can say what you want about your FSBO experence but that was in a totally different market, and those sorts of conditions are not likely to be back during your lifetime.
I do get it. If I am working with a true legit buyer, my chances of finding a home and getting through closing with a traditionally represented seller are much greater. Unless you Mrs. Unrepresented seller are sitting on a one of a kind must have home (very rare that this is the case) I probably can take this buyer and find some other home that is just as acceptable or even more acceptable to him or her.
Many on this forum will not like to hear this but many home buyers are scared of FSBO's. they see them as having something to hid otherwise they would have listed the home with a Realtor. Enough times to keep the stereotype going that is the case.
There's no need to answer a question that was already answered. I already said, price the thing low enough to attract attention. There's will be some realtor who is desperate to make a deal willing to come in and do it at 3% because if you price lower than the competition, it will be a much easier sale. With sales figuers being so low in every county in this state the past quarter, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least a few agents who are really desperate to make a deal. In fact, it would probably save them the time of driving their client around and showing them 40 other properties that are priced insanely.
There's no need to answer a question that was already answered. I already said, price the thing low enough to attract attention. There's will be some realtor who is desperate to make a deal willing to come in and do it at 3% because if you price lower than the competition, it will be a much easier sale. With sales figuers being so low in every county in this state the past quarter, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least a few agents who are really desperate to make a deal. In fact, it would probably save them the time of driving their client around and showing them 40 other properties that are priced insanely.
Sorry, that is not how things work in a buyers market. The definition of a buyers market is that there are very few buyer out there. On top of that, the desperate Realtors will have non of the buyers which is a big part of the reason they are desperate. I am sure Bill K would agree with me that on average 20% of the Realtors do 80% of the business, at a minimum. The desperate Realtors are in the 80% who are doing 20% of the business.
You see there are always home buyers, the question is just how many are there, and are they clustered in one price range or are the evenly distributed. The current situation has the majority of the buyers clustered around the first time home buyer price points.
In a buyers market, I may have the only buyer who would concievably buy said FSBO's home, but I may also know of 3 other homes that may be equally acceptable to my buyer. FSBO seller is a higher risk, do we want to take that risk???
Sorry, that is not how things work in a buyers market. The definition of a buyers market is that there are very few buyer out there. On top of that, the desperate Realtors will have non of the buyers which is a big part of the reason they are desperate. I am sure Bill K would agree with me that on average 20% of the Realtors do 80% of the business, at a minimum. The desperate Realtors are in the 80% who are doing 20% of the business.
You see there are always home buyers, the question is just how many are there, and are they clustered in one price range or are the evenly distributed. The current situation has the majority of the buyers clustered around the first time home buyer price points.
In a buyers market, I may have the only buyer who would concievably buy said FSBO's home, but I may also know of 3 other homes that may be equally acceptable to my buyer. FSBO seller is a higher risk, do we want to take that risk???
That is a gamble the FSBO would just have to take if they are the gambling type that is. In this market, I think the odds of finding my buyer another home that he/she would like just as much are fairly good. What do you think the odds are that the FSBO is going to find another buyer. keep in mind, over time the FSBO actually sells as a FSBO about 5% of the time.
Some of the studies I have seen even show that as buyers use the internet more to look for homes, the success rate for FSBO's has been going down, not up as you would expect.
Oh, and I love the FSBO websites. Little known fact, the top FSBO websites have about 80% of their traffic coming from Realtors, Mortgage brokers, and would be FSBO's getting ready to post their homes on that FSBO site.
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