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My point Lusitan, was that you are generalizing possible bad behavior accross an entire profession. That can be done with Technology as well. A good friend of mine spent 8 hours doing a project that some other tech dunderhead sat on for 6 months and billed his company over 70 hours for. Are you one of those Lusitan? one of those tech people who bilk their company like that.
In my business, yes it is ultra competitive. There is no second place, there is no pay without performance. Performance is measured in one thing only, closed deals. If you don't have clients, and clients who refer other clients you will soon find yourself without paychecks. Yes you must treat your client with respect and honesty, and represent their best interests, even if it means killing a deal. Oh, and yes there is more work for a Realtor when dealing with a FSBO.
Computer programmers (not that I am one) don't hold themselves out to be "agents" of non-savvy individuals making what amounts to the most expensive purchase of their lives. Computer programmers work for companies under an arms-length business contract (if private contractors) or via an employment-at-will capacity (if employees). It's completely inapposite to the relationship that a real estate "agent" is supposed to have with a "client" (i.e., one that purports to involve agency and fiduciary duties).
Nice try to analogize, but one has nothing to do with the other.
Sure, in any job, you can have incompetant or lazy employees who will take 6 months to do something that someone else can do in 6 hours. The guy at the checkout counter at McDonald's might be processing 20 customers per hour when a more hardworking or efficient co-worker can process 40. It's McDonald's Corp's responsibility as a sophisticated business managing its employees to set appropriate parameters for its workforce.
None of that has nothing to do with the pseudo-"agency" relationship that a real estate agent purports to have with their clients.
Edited to add: and my point is that if your profession wants to hold itself out as anything more than being mere sales, it needs to reign in this type of behavior. Cops aren't allowed to turn a blind eye when they see fellow cops engaging in corruption; attorneys can be disbarred simply for looking the other way if they know of another attorney who is committing fraud and they fail to report him to the appropriate state bar enforcement; if real estate agents want to be treated as anything other than salespeople, they need to step up to the plate and enforce their own colleagues, so that buyers out there don't have "buyer agents" lobbying sellers to increase the price of their home in the hopes of getting a fatter commission.
Computer programmers (not that I am one) don't hold themselves out to be "agents" of non-savvy individuals making what amounts to the most expensive purchase of their lives. Computer programmers work for companies under an arms-length business contract (if private contractors) or via an employment-at-will capacity (if employees). It's completely inapposite to the relationship that a real estate "agent" is supposed to have with a "client" (i.e., one that purports to involve agency and fiduciary duties).
Nice try to analogize, but one has nothing to do with the other.
Sure, in any job, you can have incompetant or lazy employees who will take 6 months to do something that someone else can do in 6 hours. The guy at the checkout counter at McDonald's might be processing 20 customers per hour when a more hardworking or efficient co-worker can process 40. It's McDonald's Corp's responsibility as a sophisticated business managing its employees to set appropriate parameters for its workforce.
None of that has nothing to do with the pseudo-"agency" relationship that a real estate agent purports to have with their clients.
Edited to add: and my point is that if your profession wants to hold itself out as anything more than being mere sales, it needs to reign in this type of behavior. Cops aren't allowed to turn a blind eye when they see fellow cops engaging in corruption; attorneys can be disbarred simply for looking the other way if they know of another attorney who is committing fraud and they fail to report him to the appropriate state bar enforcement; if real estate agents want to be treated as anything other than salespeople, they need to step up to the plate and enforce their own colleagues, so that buyers out there don't have "buyer agents" lobbying sellers to increase the price of their home in the hopes of getting a fatter commission.
Oh Lusitan, this profession is more regulated and policed than you will ever likely know. Yes just like with any profession, there are bad actors and they slowly get weeded out, but nothing is perfect.
Many of the problems people encounter in the process of searching for purchasing and or selling a home are brought on by their own actions. Many people seek to hold back critical information about their financial possition, or refuse to discuss what holds them back from making a honest decision, or just plain oblivious to the realities of the market. One reality is that a home is worth what a ready and willing buyer will pay for it. It does not matter what the home owner thinks of their home. If a home is over priced enough, there is not a realtor in this world skilled enough to get it sold, and even if there were, it would not appraise anyway.
We as Realtors no matter what the title on the license says or the public calls us, do not sell homes. Think about it, can anyone sell you a home you don't want? We facilitate the process and give well informed advice and expertise, but we don't sell homes.
I loved my agent when I bought this house! I tortured the man! I was way too outspoken and really gave him an ear full on some of the properties. He really earned his money and I would USE HIM AGAIN FOR REPEAT BUSINESS! Anyone who can take me for more than a few hours deserves a metal. This guy needed tums in one hand and advil in the other after we were throught!
Buyer's do not pay agents in NJ!!! That's why every buyer out there should use a realtor. We are a free service looking out for their best interests. And 99% of FSBO have no problem paying out a commission to a buyer's agent, they just don't want to pay someone 3% to list it when they feel that agent doesn't necessarily do anything to deserve it. They are still selling by owner and not through realtor though.
Thanks, I did not know that. What is the idea behind that setup?
I posted the above then read more of the thread and now posted this.
Out west the FSBO market is good. Lots of sellers do it because it saves them money. There are companies that charge a flat fee and teach you what papers you need (and give them to you), how to file them, what to look for from a buyer and how to protect yourself. This for about $2300-$2700 as compared to 4.5% ( I may be off here that was the last price quoted to me by an agent) and up to an agent. Now that is quite a saving on 100K and with the median price of a home being over 200K that is months worth of living expenses saved by cutting out an agent.
I never bought in N J so I never saw any of this but it sure seems odd that someone "using" and agent doesn't have to pay them. Very Fishy, Very Very Fishy.
I think this realtor is taking advantage of you. 4% is ridiculous!!!! That translates into you paying an 8 percent commission (in total) had you not been a FSBO. Usually, the listing agent gets half and the buyers agent gets half - they share the commission. I realize you didn't pay for the listing agent so you might be looking at it as 4% versus the 5% or 6% you would have paid if you weren't FSBO.
In any case, I think she's taking advantage. It sounds like you told her 3.5% is okay. I think 3% is more than fair but it might be too late to get out of that one.
Consider this - if this agent shows another house to these buyers (one that's listed with a real estate agency) she will likely get somewhere between 2% and 3%. One might think she would "push" harder to sell your house because she would be getting 4% but that would be totally unethical (at least in my opinion, and perhaps according to the National Association of Realtors.)
Good luck with the sale. That's really the most important goal, here.
The agent only wants a 4% commission at the time of closing after they've brought you a specific pre-named buyer? From my perspective, 4% of a sale is a lot better than 3% of your no sale. I think you'd be wise to do that in today's market.
Why pay 4%?
First, buyers are few and far between -- and many "shoppers" can't qualify for a mortgage with today's strict underwriting standards. A legitimate buyer is precious indeed.
Second, a 4% commission off of today's price yields you 96% of today's price. If home prices drop another 10 - 15% as many experts are predicting, you'll wish you'd gotten that 96% when "prices were high back in '09," and your house value drops to 85% of today's price.
However, if the agent is soliciting a de-facto listing agreement, that's a different story altogether and you may be right to question their motivation. But if the agent is legit -- one agent, one pre-named buyer, one sale -- then 4% is a bargain!
I am a licensed broker and I personally feel that is very unethical. I have personally sold FSBO properties to buyers with as little as 2%. The fact is if a buyer wants to see a home the agent has a fiduciary responsibility to show the home. I would ask what firm the agent works for and get their name. Now this may seem a bit extreme but I would consider reporting this person to the state Real Estate Commission or at least call the commission and get their opinion on this issue. This kind of price gauging practice needs to stop and is not very smart by any agent. I have a very good relationship with all my past clients due to just treating everyone the same and being fair. I love helping FSBO sellers succeed in their quest to sell FSBO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingNJ
Just curious if you all think this is reasonable. She says she has potential buyer that would be interested, but won't show the condo unless we agree to a 4% commission. We were ready to offer 3%, but may offer her 3.5%
I am a licensed broker and I personally feel that is very unethical. I have personally sold FSBO properties to buyers with as little as 2%. The fact is if a buyer wants to see a home the agent has a fiduciary responsibility to show the home. I would ask what firm the agent works for and get their name. Now this may seem a bit extreme but I would consider reporting this person to the state Real Estate Commission or at least call the commission and get their opinion on this issue. This kind of price gauging practice needs to stop and is not very smart by any agent. I have a very good relationship with all my past clients due to just treating everyone the same and being fair. I love helping FSBO sellers succeed in their quest to sell FSBO.
typically the buyer only wants to see the home because the agent brought it up. The agent has been showing the buyer all over the place and now has a very good idea what the buyer wants. The agent may have only 10 or 20 hours into this buyer, or may have hundreds of hours, though I very rarely would go anywhere near that number before telling said buyer, to ether get off the pot or you know what.
Anyway, it is not unethical to ask for a commission, and the amount of the commission asked for does not make a difference as far as ethical or not. It is all a negotiation, nothing more, at least in this state, all commissions are negotiable.
I agree with one of the above statments, you want it sold now and pay said commission, or you want to save the commission, and keep trying to sell in a buyers market. choice seems easy to me.
I would love it if you PM'd Mranger me with who you are and such as I have a hard time believing you are a broker.
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