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Old 02-10-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,510 posts, read 3,976,796 times
Reputation: 621

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoakman View Post
And your point is what? From what I gather, you are simply going to let Obama do whatever he wants because it's "his turn". And by "his turn", I mean his turn to screw up the country. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Geeze.....hes only been in office 3 weeks.....stop whining already and give the poor guy a chance !!!
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,510 posts, read 3,976,796 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoakman View Post
what are you saying? Someone that has worked hard has never screwed up? Stop putting blind faith in people. Putting blind faith in politicians is what allows them to impose on your freedoms and take your money away from you. This has nothing to do with who took more vacation time. This has to do with stupid ideas and bad policy.
Everyone screws up but it takes a man to say so.......I've already heard it once from Obama.....when was the last time you heard Bush or Cheney say they made a mistake ? Bush still believes history will prove him to be a great president.....he even compared himself to Lincoln and Washington in doing so saying they weren't appreciated until many years after their presidency.....the man was and is really detached from reality. As far as vacation time goes you couldn't be more wrong.....one takes time to go on vacation when they feel everything is going in the right direction and their presence won't be missed......do you honestly feel with the mess this country is in on so many levels his time was best spend on vacation more than any other president ? Are you really serious when you say that ???
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:12 PM
 
612 posts, read 1,011,077 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
as far as Obama spending more than has ever been spent perhaps its because our prior leader, Georgie boy, has created more debt than all the prior presidents
and the solution to that is for Obama to one up him by creating even more debt?

Can you pay off a credit card by opening up another credit card with a bigger balance?
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: NJ
392 posts, read 842,364 times
Reputation: 191
sholden, theoakman, you guys are spot on.

The right way forward is painful, but to survive, we must become a nation that lives within our means. Governments and individuals alike cannot thrive when they spend (borrow) more than they earn (or can pay back). It is as simple as that.

After the 9/11 attack, to avoid a recession, the Fed flooded the market with liquidity by dropping interest rates to historical lows. We avoided a recession but this action (along with lax underwriting standards, irresponsible consumer behavior, wall street greed, and government/regulatory authority incompetence) created the far bigger problem we face today. It is sad, but the 9/11 terrorist attack does have a hand in the current disaster we face today. This upsets me more than anything else.

God Bless America. I want my child to have a better standard of living than me. As it stands, our children might become the first to not live better than their parents.

I don't think we can't spend our way out of this. (but I hope I am wrong)
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:30 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,510 posts, read 3,976,796 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoakman View Post
and the solution to that is for Obama to one up him by creating even more debt?

Can you pay off a credit card by opening up another credit card with a bigger balance?
I see you quoted me but left off one important word......."COMBINED".......Bush created more debt than all the other presidents COMBINED !!! Look.......at least Obama is being honest in saying that no one is absolutely sure this plan will work......we may need to adjust along the way.....the bottom line is that NO ONE knows exactly what to do since we've never been in this situation before....we're in uncharted waters....if your hearing someone out there saying they have the precise plan to fix everything hes a liar.....no one knows.....two things we know for sure......Bush sure as hell didn't know and we need to take action now other wise we spiral deeper into financial trouble that will be harder to reverse. We voted this man in for change and action......well.....we're getting it....stop whining and let the man take charge.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: NJ
392 posts, read 842,364 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholden View Post
The trick for us is to make sure to load up with debt, after asset values stop falling but before inflation kicks in - which will be almost impossible to time.
This might be the best piece of advice I've read anywhere!

I have zero debt (no car payment, no credit card balance, no mortgage) and a significant amount of money in cash. (I am one of those now rare Americans that lives comfortably but well below their means)

However, I am feeling very uncomfortable right now. I want to be holding debt when the s*** really hits the fan but feel that housing still has some significant downside. I am itching to buy, but no way to time this...
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes +
5,554 posts, read 6,740,191 times
Reputation: 8575
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoakman View Post
Sure, drastically reduce spending. Close down all these foreign military bases we have around the world that spend a trillion dollars a year. Cut the bloated budgets on all these wasteful government bureaucracies (FCC, FDA, EPA). Stop the nation building in Iraq and Afgahnistan. Stop sending free money to Israel and Palestine. Allow Americans to opt out of participating with social security. Stop trying to price fix housing and let the market clear so people can actually buy houses for a reasonable price. And if you are going to lower taxes, get rid of the income tax. Stop giving assymetric tax breaks to large corporations that only hurt small businesses. Stop giving out farm subsidies to farmers to prop up food prices. Oh yeah, and stop allowing a handful of unelected bankers at the federal reserve to control the money of the entire nation.

The solution to the problems at hand are to stop spending money, stop borrowing money, and stop running huge deficits. You can't clear a trillion dollar deficit by expanding it to 2 trillion dollars. You can't pay back a 9 trillion dollar trade deficit by borrowing more money from abroad. You can't create jobs for the middle class by charging them high taxes on their personal income through income tax and social security tax. The government can only give you back what they take away from you. They can't create jobs and when they try to, it is only at the expense of the private industry.

Obama is proposing to fund this big "stimulus" either through borrowed money or through a printing press. It's the death sentence to the economy.

Make no mistake about it, there is ABSOLUTELY no way to avoid the economic down turn. It's impossible. We had too much excess and misallocation of capital. The transition to a healthy economy MUST involve people losing their jobs and finding new ones that are more productive. We have had a bunch of deflationary collapses in our countries history. They all never lasted more than a few years until the great depression. The great depression only existed because the government tried to fix things. If you think government is the answer, you are sadly mistaken. Anything the government has it's hand in will be run like the US post office. Horribly.
You don't know your history, as I figured. Roosevelt ie. goverment - saved us when Hoover got us into the depression. Know thy history instead of ranting.

Last edited by Aylalou; 02-10-2009 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes +
5,554 posts, read 6,740,191 times
Reputation: 8575
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan View Post
I see you quoted me but left off one important word......."COMBINED".......Bush created more debt than all the other presidents COMBINED !!! Look.......at least Obama is being honest in saying that no one is absolutely sure this plan will work......we may need to adjust along the way.....the bottom line is that NO ONE knows exactly what to do since we've never been in this situation before....we're in uncharted waters....if your hearing someone out there saying they have the precise plan to fix everything hes a liar.....no one knows.....two things we know for sure......Bush sure as hell didn't know and we need to take action now other wise we spiral deeper into financial trouble that will be harder to reverse. We voted this man in for change and action......well.....we're getting it....stop whining and let the man take charge.
Don't waste your time flyers with someone who really doesn't know much.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,661,904 times
Reputation: 3064
Obama will go down in history as our greatest president. He is trying to do something everyday to help the country for the better!
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:34 PM
 
612 posts, read 1,011,077 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan View Post
I see you quoted me but left off one important word......."COMBINED".......Bush created more debt than all the other presidents COMBINED !!! Look.......at least Obama is being honest in saying that no one is absolutely sure this plan will work......we may need to adjust along the way.....the bottom line is that NO ONE knows exactly what to do since we've never been in this situation before....we're in uncharted waters....if your hearing someone out there saying they have the precise plan to fix everything hes a liar.....no one knows.....two things we know for sure......Bush sure as hell didn't know and we need to take action now other wise we spiral deeper into financial trouble that will be harder to reverse. We voted this man in for change and action......well.....we're getting it....stop whining and let the man take charge.
combined... so what? That doesn't change the point. Obama has already proclaimed that he's going to spend more than Bush ever did.
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