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Anesthesia, i couldnt agree more, with one caveat....i would think that earning $500k a year would make even someone in NJ feel wealthy. Not super-rich by any measure, nor affluent enough to stop working, but certainly wealthy.
As far as "rich" goes, i know a number of people in my area who made enough money early in their careers to essentially retire in their late 30s, early 40s. They live in magnificent houses, free from mortgages, with multi-car garages filled with amazing machinery, only doing occasional work when they feel like it for pleasure, not because they need to. Now these people are without doubt, and by anyone's standards, "rich".
I get the arguement about money being relative. A smart man once told me the more money you make, the more you spend, the more comfortable your life becomes.
Still, if you are making 250k+/yr in NJ you are *rich* despite what you may think or how you may feel. If you don't think so, trade your income in for 100k/yr and see how you think and feel then.
it really, really, really depends. how old you are, when you bought your house (or if you even had a house), do you have kids, how old are those kids, etc etc etc.....
a single person who bought a house 15 years ago who makes $150K is usually going to be much better off than a couple with 2 kids in daycare who bought a house 3 years ago making the same amount of money.
but for your basic middle aged couple with 2 kids, I'd say you're doing pretty well (upper middle class) if you make $160K and over. you're struggling at around $75K and under. when my boys were in daycare we were making between those 2 numbers and we were doing fine - we could save, maxed out 401K's, took vacations, etc. but we didn't have car payments or any other loans other than mortgage.
Impressions
Ok middle class to me is a 2 income family living in an average home and not struggling to much.
Upper middle class would be again 2 incomes with the fancy cars and crap to show off with and not struggling to much.
Rich class are the morons whom have 1 income and love to show it all off.
Reality
Smart- in NJ it doesn't matter 1 income or 2. If you are wise with your money, and aren't in debt up to your eyeballs than your doing great! I have friends (including myself in this) that make all different salaries starting at $50k a year and we all live fine and are happy. I make alot more but I don't drive a fancy car (a chevy impala) or go take home equity loans out to buy STUFF. I save the money than buy it. So does everyone I know. We are all feeling the effects of this economic crunch but we can make it easier on ourselves.
Stupid-(about 60% of NJ and alot of my neighbors) Lets keep up with the Jones. Let me tak that home eq and buy a fancy car, a big pool, and flaunt my money. Oh yea I'm impressed. NOT
As for the rich I know a couple whom are rich and I mean rich. These people are the smartest I know. They have a fancy car(1) and drive some little tiny crappy 4 banger for work and for errands. They live in a modest neighborhood and you would never suspect how much money they actually have. I am guessing incomes over $500k or more. Money isn't the only thing they are rich with, they also have love, respect and honest to god happiness.
So for all those out there with the attitude about money. You make your own fortune in life. We can't be jealous because someone was smarter with their money. I suppose some people would call me rich, but to me I am the average person whom doesn't care what you have, what color you are or how much you have only that you are a decent person and not a stuck up ahole. Money is not the key to absolute happiness and no one is going to hand it to you.
Social class does not only depend on your paycheck income. Wealth is determine by how many assets you have vs debt. (how much money comes in vs. how much goes out). A house that is not mortgage free is a debt not an asset unleess it's a rental property.
So you see social class is really determined by how many assets you have vs debt. You can make 300-500K a year in income and do not have cash flow from investemts but have a huge mortgage debt then you are really poor. In this case the difference bewteen lower middle class and the above is that the lower class lives in a small cape cod, blue collar town, shops in walmart & vacations in the NJ shore vs. living in a 3 bed/2 bath colonial, an all white collar town, shop at River Side Square Mall and vacation in a carribean Island. In the end is just a perception of the value of the material possesions we have. Deep down it's the same. 100% cotton is the same if made in china or in paris.
I know you're all gonna love this one... In your opinion, how much do you need to earn (household income) in order to be considered middle class, upper middle class and rich in NJ? Try to factor in the generally absurd cost of living.
I think middle class can be defined as $75-150k in NJ. Upper-middle class 151k-250k. Rich 251k+. Oh I consider these brackets mainly applicable for Northern and most of central NJ. From my understanding southern parts of our state are different as the cost of living is quite a bit less.
That sounds pretty fair to me.
LOLOL, just looked at the last post dated March 18 and realized this thread is from last year.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-09-2010 at 11:22 AM..
Reason: added last
This is for North/Central NJ. In terms of Household income, with let's say 2 kids...
Poor = Under $65k
Middle Class = $66k - $140k
Upper Middle Class = $141k - $300k
Wealthy = $301k and up
i make over 300K and i don't consider myself wealthy at my age. Wealthy can only be defined by net worth not my income. I would put a tag of at least 2-3 million in assets in early to mid 30's to be considered wealthy.
I think these are such relative terms. Nobody that has to go to work every day to pay the bills feels wealthy. If you take any person and multiply their salary X2, THAT is what is wealthy to them. I think it would take a lot more than $300K, $400K, or $500K to make anyone in NJ feel wealthy. I think a lot of people making 5 digit salaries dont really understand as I didn't when I was in that position. When I was making $35K, those kind of salaries seemed enormous to me, and they would be, if only I still lived like I was making $35K. That would be the smart thing to do, but it's not so easy. I'm not into fancy cars, or jewelry or anything like that, but your family grows and you want your kids to have the best. So you get a nice, modest house in a good area, you max out the kid's 529s from the day they are born, the tax burden is terrible in the "AMT class", on both the state and federal level, plus the outrageous property taxes you will be paying in many nice neighborhoods. Now you need more insurance too. More life, home, disability, and the highest level of auto insurance because you have so much to lose. Then you max your 401K or sep like any responsible person would do. Now since you dont live in a poor area with free preschool, you spend thousands of dollars per kid on that. Summer camp is thousands more too. And you do all this because you want your kids to have the things that you didn't have. So you have enough for a nice dinner out once or twice a week, and a reasonably priced vacation, and you have a nice comfortable life, but your not exactly rolling in dough. You still have to get up and go to work every day to pay the bills.
income wise, I agree that 500K+ on 1099 will make anyone feel somewhat wealthy
lol at needing multiple millions by early/mid 30's to feel wealthy. i can't believe that people making 300k+ don't realize how wealthy they are, just because they hang out in a neighborhood with even wealthier people. and the sob stories about having to max out their 529's, and summer camps, etc etc. i understand that almost nobody "feels" wealthy because they always look at the group ahead of them, but you should still understand that you're in the top 1% of the USA, and probably top 0.1% of the world (even adjusted for cost of living in the area), so the harsh cold reality is that you're wealthy or upper-middle class.
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