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Old 04-03-2007, 07:07 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,507 posts, read 5,900,352 times
Reputation: 1452

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Welcome home BrianH. Kudo to you for being so honest. Rep Point too.

No matter what those out-of-staters- say about us (NJ or Brick NJ) ... we still have the best of everything and not all of us are leaving. Some are coming home.
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,555 posts, read 10,367,997 times
Reputation: 2162
Over at the NC board they ask the questions but they refuse to hear the true answers. They firmly believe that the people from the south are ready to welcome them with open arms and a lower cost of living. I've got remarks attached to some of my rep points from the long timers saying that they agree with my assessment of North Carolina. The fact of the matter is that they don't want their way of life taken away yet it's unstoppable that it is being taken away. Their lower cost of living is being taken away. All of their wide open spaces are being taken away. They resent it and I don't blame them, the same way that I wouldn't want the Jersey way of life being disrupted myself.

I'm living here now and can tell you in all honesty that with people up here the south is what they imagine it to be, not what it really is. You can't base everything on one or two visits. Everything unfolds over continuous time spent and that's where everything reveals itself. It's not what people make it out to be. I talked the same talk that everyone else does before they go down to NC. I did the exact same thing and that's what makes it so funny! And here I am ready to pack to head back to New Jersey before year's end.

Again, anyone can look over my old posts to see my points. I'm not trying to bash anyone's dreams, I'm just being brutally honest. They ask, I answer.
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:42 PM
 
11 posts, read 42,536 times
Reputation: 14
Move to PA, then you'll appreciate NJ. I'd take my $5000/yr taxes over the crap I have to put up with here in PA!!!
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:11 PM
 
47 posts, read 206,627 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
I can at least speak for myself. We moved from central NJ to Concord, NC. We're coming back to NJ before year's end. You can look back on my posts and you'll see I stirred up quite a bit....snip

And to not go over everything all over again, you can go back over my posts to see why NC is as overrated as it is, why with all of the growth that it's going downhill as rapidly as it is, why you'll be running smack dab into what you think you're running away from. .
Hi BrianH1970 - just spent some time going over your posts and now I see what's bringing you back, in part, to NJ. Your comments and the responses to them were very useful and enlightening.

I'm headed down to Asheville for a business/pleasure trip and naturally wanted to look at the area too since everyone I know these days who is leaving NJ seems to mention NC among several other states they're moving to.

What you say is happening to parts or all of NC rings familiar because we've seen the same things happening to NJ, among other places.

I remember--yep, I'm that old--when the GSP opened! I remember when Rt. 80, 287, 78, etc. were built. The results? Too many people moved into NJ changing forever the "old NJ" we grew up with and loved.

Luckily for us, most of the people didn't come from certain select parts of the country to actually change our "culture" too much--haha, most folks would like to know what's good about Jersey culture--but they sure did change our life-style, our physical environment, etc. When folks from outside NC move into it and the southern/Appalachian culture changes too much, that's very sad.

Also, in northern NJ were I live, there has been a tremendous move by New Yorkers or those who want NYC but can't afford it, into some of our cities and it's really changing the culture of places like Hoboken, Jersey City, Montclair, Red Bank, etc. Some call it the "Manhattanization" of NJ. Yikes!

There's lots of complaints about how rich, smug, yuppie "New Yawkers" are ruining our towns by trying to re-make them into "little Manhattans." I used to love to go to Ocean Grove, Belmar, Cape May and Asbury Park but these days I avoid them since the Jersey Shore ain't what it used to be either.

Just got back from trips to Utah and Oregon and the cry is the same. Except there it's Californians who are coming in, jacking up prices, changing the land, and 'ruining" the culture.

So...I guess this movement of people will become another great "American Experiment" in which, by moving around as much as we do, with the good and bad that comes from this migration, this will give shape to the U.S. in the 21st Century. It might be a good time to be alive and struggle with these changes. Americans are well-known for our ability to adapt to change!

Enjoyed your posts and hope you find the Jersey you've come to know and love.

cindy 175
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,555 posts, read 10,367,997 times
Reputation: 2162
There's a few of us who've "rattled the cages" so to speak about the whole influx to North Carolina. I've got absolutely nothing to gain by being open and upfront with things down here. I mean sure...my main reason for moving back to New Jersey is because it feels most like "home". But there's a ton of other reasons. Sometimes morals do get in my way and morally it doesn't feel right being a part of the influx. Everything kind of speaks for itself. Some people want to hear it, most don't because it dashes their perception of what life is really like down here. Sometimes it shows in a few of the negative reps that I've gotten that it's not exactly what they want to hear...
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:31 PM
 
47 posts, read 206,627 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
There's a few of us who've "rattled the cages" so to speak about the whole influx to North Carolina. I've got absolutely nothing to gain by being open and upfront with things down here. I mean sure...my main reason for moving back to New Jersey is because it feels most like "home". But there's a ton of other reasons. Sometimes morals do get in my way and morally it doesn't feel right being a part of the influx. Everything kind of speaks for itself. Some people want to hear it, most don't because it dashes their perception of what life is really like down here. Sometimes it shows in a few of the negative reps that I've gotten that it's not exactly what they want to hear...
It's important for everyone to hear about the pros/cons of any change. Debate is useful too and bringing up other 'sides' of an issue is very helpful to people planing any move. Glad you started what seems to be a good conversation.

I'm new here so I'm puzzled by your last sentence - exactly what is a "negative reps" that posters get? Is there somewhere on the site that explains this?

thanks..
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,555 posts, read 10,367,997 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cindy175 View Post
It's important for everyone to hear about the pros/cons of any change. Debate is useful too and bringing up other 'sides' of an issue is very helpful to people planing any move. Glad you started what seems to be a good conversation.

I'm new here so I'm puzzled by your last sentence - exactly what is a "negative reps" that posters get? Is there somewhere on the site that explains this?

thanks..
You give and get reputation points (you'll see them on the upper right of your screen). You also have the option of giving positive or negative points on a particular post with a comment. Every once in a while I'll get a negative with a pretty vague comment. However you'd be shocked at the amount of positives that have come with a comment, especially at the post they're attached to.
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:00 PM
 
47 posts, read 206,627 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxbury View Post
Move to PA, then you'll appreciate NJ. I'd take my $5000/yr taxes over the crap I have to put up with here in PA!!!
Yep, Roxbury - I had a cabin in Pa. for several years. The area got more and more populated, the taxes went up, but the services didn't improve.

So many folks from NJ/NY are moving into Poconos area and beyond that the roads, schools, etc. aren't really ready for them. NJ has its problems, for sure, but it's light years ahead of Pa. in certain things like education, health care, etc.
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:57 AM
 
11 posts, read 42,536 times
Reputation: 14
Cindy175, that is SO true about the roads. Growing up my parents had a vacation home in Shohola, they eventually retired there and my dad is still there. But the population has BOOMED enormously! And the roads, like you said, just aren't made for this amount of traffic. Poor Milford, on a July day on Saturday expect to be in a backup on Rt. 6 to the toll bridge! Rt. 209 through Martins Creek is a joke. I don't even want to know what Port Jervis is like! Even Rt. 15 through Lafayette is taking a beating. But I know NJ DOT is trying to eliviate that problem. PA in general has to catch up to the millennium.
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:24 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,349 posts, read 20,719,954 times
Reputation: 9888
I think a lot of what Brian has to say ties into the fact that migration patterns on the East Coast tend to run north-south, instead of east-west. That is to say, most who leave NJ-NY-PA areas (or the Boston to DC area) go south to Florida, Georgia, NC, etc. These folks bring their culture with them, thus the resentment, or the increasingly homogenous cultures. Part of it has to do, no doubt, with the influence of I-95, when people traditionally drive to Florida for spring vacations, then pulled real estate pamphlets, saw the disparity of prices, etc. This was a harbinger for the inevitable shift in population that has been happening now for quite some time. However, not many do what I've done: move from New Jersey to New Mexico. To me, this is a much more extreme move. And you don't find as much of a hint of New Jersey/northeast culture here. For those who are truly looking to escape the negative trappings of the NJ area, I suggest relocating to at least the Central Time Zone, instead of just south. Even Iowa,Minnesota,Nebraska, etc, are far more removed from the NJ way of life, than say, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, etc. Though I couldn't have relocated to any of those places, because, like most people, I can't stand winters. I think that's part of the lure of moving south as well. So, I moved south, and west as well.

Now, that said, I can't disparage Brian and others from attempting to rekindle their heritage. New Jersey is a very unique state. I liken the residents to the carp, a dirty water fish that can not thrive in clean waters. If you take them out of their environment, often they can't thrive. Put them back in the dirty water, and they flourish. Maybe that's a flawed analogy. There are several elements within NJ that can't be replicated in other areas, such as neighborhood layouts. Many of them pre-date the automobile, so you can say there is a character to them absent in other places. Also, where as in most other areas of the country where land is more abundant, cities annex the outer areas and incorporate them into the town, so there is no distinctness to the central city. New Jersey is a different animal. You have 566 municipalities shoehorned into 7419 square miles. Again, this is a consequence of the state having many residents pre-automobile, and a 2 mile distance pre-car seemed greater. Thus, the unique spatial structure of town layouts. If you are driving on Rt 80 through Morris County, for instance, you see green signs almost every mile: Town of Mt Arlington, Town of Dover, Town of Rockaway, Town of Denville, etc. This is a uniquely NJ phenomenon. This is also the reason why taxes on property are so high in NJ: duplicate services. There is a price tag that comes along with the uniqueness. And ultimately, it played a large factor in my leaving. Because I did not appreciate my taxes rising astronomically every year, without explanation, coupled with high population density, and shoveling snow into March. That kind of lifestyle did not work for me, but I understand why it does appeal for so many others. Because it is very unique. There is really no other place in the country like it, with the exception of perhaps central-western Connecticut.
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