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There are plenty of complaints, but changes that would make a substantial difference are going to meet with considerable resistance because of the reasons I mentioned.
The fact that the current system stays in place suggests that this is the path of least resistance -- the system that results in the least amount of whining.
I don't think this would help that much. Newark schools, for example, are horribly expensive, but they don't really have this problem that there are too many stand-alone school systems.
The problem is that even if there was some consolidation, the government has no incentive to reduce administrative overhead. In fact they would perhaps have less incentive to do so, because it is more difficult to pack up and move away from your region than it is to move out of your town.
As it stands, the different school districts do need to compete with each other.
I respect your opinions but I totally 100% disagree with them
The least amount of whining..from whom??? The NJEA
if people didn't incessantly complain that they work 10 months a year and have it so easy, maybe they wouldn't feel the need to defend themselves. i've yet to see a teacher START a thread about how bad they have it. it's always in response to people who feel the need to sit in judgement of others' professions. (like this thread)
they dont have to start threads about it, they have a classroom full of young children to brainwash. i remember them complaining to me when i was in school.
I respect your opinions but I totally 100% disagree with them
The least amount of whining..from whom??? The NJEA
The solution in place is an "optimal compromise" between all interested parties. Everyone whines precisely because it is a compromise.
However, there aren't many solutions that would address the issue that will not make someone really unhappy.
For example, consider your consolidation plan. First, since when did large centralized bureaucracies perform better than decentralized bureaucracies ? What happens is that you end up creating another layer of administration whose job it is to create work for the other layers. Second, school districts could consolidate if they wanted to. But I doubt that the residents of Glen Ridge would be terribly enthusiastic with the idea of merging with Bloomfield, Nutley and Belleville let alone Newark.
Most other ideas are not ideologically neutral. That is, they are generally opposed by either liberals or conservatives. For example, liberals are skeptical about vouchers, a move to a more privatized system, and anything that would be construed as pay cuts for teachers, and anything that would be punitive to "the poor". Conservatives are opposed to any deviation from local control. Liberals in the "good" school districts (e.g. Glen Ridge) would also oppose shifts from local control.
As for whining, the people in Glen Ridge might "whine" about their property taxes, but not the quality of their schools. Everyone would like their governments to provide more services for less taxes (without cutting anyones pay), so there are inevitably complaints about too little services and too much taxes, but you don't get everyone complaining about too little tax or too much services.
Well unfortunately it is what it is. Teachers are going to be the #1 target because most of the outrageous taxes we all pay is to support the school systems.
Never said they had it easy but some of those salaries posted plus the benefits they receive and the fact they only work 185 days a year makes peoples blood boil when they get their tax bills, personally I think it's more the administative costs and I just shake my head as I read town after town that defeated the school budgets in April, the cost cutting comes at the sake of the kids..I've yet to read where the way a town was to trim the budget, which in most cases is just a fraction of the overall budget,by trimming away some of the fat cat administation.
Our elected officials are not listening to us....but of course if we were to try & regionalize school systems the NJEA would fight tooth & nail for it to not happen..bottom line Tahiti..we wil continue to pay up the wazoo to reside in NJ
i don't disagree with this, i just take issue with the statement that teachers constantly whine, when in fact, at least on this board, they are defending themselves.
The solution in place is an "optimal compromise" between all interested parties. Everyone whines precisely because it is a compromise.
However, there aren't many solutions that would address the issue that will not make someone really unhappy.
For example, consider your consolidation plan. First, since when did large centralized bureaucracies perform better than decentralized bureaucracies ? What happens is that you end up creating another layer of administration whose job it is to create work for the other layers. Second, school districts could consolidate if they wanted to. But I doubt that the residents of Glen Ridge would be terribly enthusiastic with the idea of merging with Bloomfield, Nutley and Belleville let alone Newark.
Most other ideas are not ideologically neutral. That is, they are generally opposed by either liberals or conservatives. For example, liberals are skeptical about vouchers, a move to a more privatized system, and anything that would be construed as pay cuts for teachers, and anything that would be punitive to "the poor". Conservatives are opposed to any deviation from local control. Liberals in the "good" school districts (e.g. Glen Ridge) would also oppose shifts from local control.
As for whining, the people in Glen Ridge might "whine" about their property taxes, but not the quality of their schools. Everyone would like their governments to provide more services for less taxes (without cutting anyones pay), so there are inevitably complaints about too little services and too much taxes, but you don't get everyone complaining about too little tax or too much services.
So what's the answer? How do all children in NJ get an equal good education and at the same time reducing our taxes?
Short answer: vouchers and charter schools. But this won't fly politically.
Longer answer: system needs to be based on voluntary actions of all actors involved. This creates the right incentives because everyone (the schools, students, teachers) can vote with their feet. With the current system, the students can impose themselves on the schools and the teachers. Likewise, the teachers can impose themselves on the schools and the schools can impose themselves on the students. This means that no-one has any incentive to avoid imposing costs on others.
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How do other states manage it? There are even states where if you don't have kids in school you don't pay school taxes or so I'm told
Other states ? Some states have vouchers. But for the most part, I think it's that their costs of living are lower.
Well unfortunately it is what it is. Teachers are going to be the #1 target because most of the outrageous taxes we all pay is to support the school systems.
The key is not to lump them in with everything else.
It is all right to not like the school budget, but do not blame the teachers.
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Never said they had it easy but some of those salaries posted plus the benefits they receive and the fact they only work 185 days a year makes peoples blood boil when they get their tax bills,
True, but this is the one profession (my mother and many family relations) have precticed all their lives. It is the only one that TELLS you when you go on vacation. Where your efforts are constantly being measured, and where your primary contact is with a bunch of immature learners that can test your very patience sometimes.
And sometimes you get a great group, and that keeps you going hopefully until the next one.
But one thing you do not see. It has a few extras. The younger the student the more you are like a mother/father trying to keep 30 kids paying attention. Have you ever tried that with even, say, 4 or 5? And although the lesson plans are probably easier than later years, you still have to make them, and grade tests and meet with parents.
The older children can get difficult as well, but probably not in the same way (especially in physics class!!). But you have MUCH more difficult tests (if you give good ones that are not the same multiple choice as last year, etc etc). You also have things in some schools like "summer classes" where the kids come in several times in the summer to try to get pre-schooled in the more advanced classes.
But you also have papers that keep you up until 8-10 o'clock at night grading them (stacks of them). You have classes you have to take each year to satisfy the states/districts education requirements (you kind of get a little sick of going back to class every year after 20 or so years...)
But most people do not see what the teacher does AFTER school hours. They just see 180 days and think that 3pm is quitting time (BTW, a lot of schools have INSANE starting times. 7:00, 7:30 at some, so even 3pm is not as crazy as some people think).
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personally I think it's more the administative costs and I just shake my head as I read town after town that defeated the school budgets in April, the cost cutting comes at the sake of the kids..I've yet to read where the way a town was to trim the budget, which in most cases is just a fraction of the overall budget,by trimming away some of the fat cat administation.
Agreed. Cutting a school budget by 10% does not mean that the cuts will be equal. Admins may not get any cut, but there goes your soccer team!
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Our elected officials are not listening to us....but of course if we were to try & regionalize school systems the NJEA would fight tooth & nail for it to not happen..bottom line Tahiti..we wil continue to pay up the wazoo to reside in NJ
And there are probably reasons why they do not want regionalizations. It is easy to site a solution and think that it will work, but the problem is the people they will try to cut will not be the admins! they will try to stick 50 kids in a Chemistry class (50 high schoolers using chemicals with one teacher) rather than cut down to 1 VP (rather than 2. Hey, they NEED 2 for all the admin work!!!! ).
I am not saying it can't be looked into, but like with most things in politics, it is oversimplified and its root meaning is distilled into a 15 second sound-byte.
True, but this is the one profession (my mother and many family relations) have precticed all their lives. It is the only one that TELLS you when you go on vacation.
i had to stop here, i was going to be sick. its not the only one that restricts vacation time. they get plenty of opportunities ( spring break, winter break, summer vacation, half days, holidays, etc.)
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