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With the opportunities of NYC and the high cost of living of this county, I don't think a household income of 20K is middle class. I think that range has to bump up.
Which is what I said in the second sentence, though the NJ median income is only 32% higher than the US one - it's not double or anything like that ( and surely the middle class must include the middle :).
Which is what I said in the second sentence, though the NJ median income is only 32% higher than the US one - it's not double or anything like that ( and surely the middle class must include the middle .
But median housing prices in Northern NJ are more than double the national average, even after the recent drops.
Housing prices here are still ridiculous, and way beyond what most people can afford. I don't know how they've stayed as high as they are for as long as they have, but they're certainly not budging nearly enough for me.
I agree, it's crazy to call houses "under 500K" affordable, but sadly, that's what the definition of affordable has become, especially in the Northeast quadrant burbs.
But median housing prices in Northern NJ are more than double the national average, even after the recent drops.
So? NJ residents spend a higher percentage of their income on accomodation, just means they spend less on other things - doesn't move "middle class". And also that prices aren't finished falling
Which is what I said in the second sentence, though the NJ median income is only 32% higher than the US one - it's not double or anything like that ( and surely the middle class must include the middle .
You're right, didn't see the second part. Rutherford's median income is 79K with a median house of 445K, though.
So? NJ residents spend a higher percentage of their income on accomodation, just means they spend less on other things - doesn't move "middle class". And also that prices aren't finished falling
I do agree that people making 100K or 150K a year shouldn't be crying poverty, whether they live in NJ or not. But housing here has really become a budget buster in this area over the past decade.
I still don't know how median housing prices in this area can be 5x - 6x median HHI.
I do agree that people making 100K or 150K a year shouldn't be crying poverty, whether they live in NJ or not. But housing here has really become a budget buster in this area over the past decade.
I still don't know how median housing prices in this area can be 5x - 6x median HHI.
Those people who earned the median HHI for the most part didn't pay today's prices.
What's happening now is that transactions have slowed to a crawl because very few people can afford current prices.
I do agree that people making 100K or 150K a year shouldn't be crying poverty, whether they live in NJ or not. But housing here has really become a budget buster in this area over the past decade.
I still don't know how median housing prices in this area can be 5x - 6x median HHI.
People either
1) got into their homes before they cost as much as they do now
2) get help from their parents to pay for their homes- inheritance or plain old cash
3) rent the houses
There are plenty of towns with decent schools where you can buy a house for about $500,000. Nutley is one. Lyndhurst is also very affordable, though the schools may not be quite as good. However, it all depends on what you want though. Most of those $500,000 houses in Rutherford are fairly old, have no central air conditioning, and need some work. You're not going to find a beautiful, newly renovated house in Rutherford for $500,000. In that sense, I think Rutherford is a little less affordable than some nearby towns.
I definitely think Rutherford is a great town, and it is definitely more affordable than some other places. However, it would be misleading to say the average middle class family can live there. Affording a $3000/month payment on a family income of 100,000 when you have kids is not easy.
The other problem with NJ housing is that the taxes are insane. For example, if your mortgage is $400,000 at 6% interest, that's about $2,400 a month for your mortage. Fair enough, but when you add in taxes (which can be 900+ a month), insurance, PMI (who can afford to put down 100,000 on a 500,000 house?), you're suddenly in the 3500-4000 range, which is nuts.
If taxes in NJ were lower, more people would be able to purchase houses. It's a huge difference. In NYC, the taxes on a 500,000 house may be 3,000 to 4,000 a year (yes, I know the NYC income tax helps to make up the difference). In northern NJ, you're looking at $10,000+.
There are plenty of towns with decent schools where you can buy a house for about $500,000. Nutley is one. Lyndhurst is also very affordable, though the schools may not be quite as good. However, it all depends on what you want though. Most of those $500,000 houses in Rutherford are fairly old, have no central air conditioning, and need some work. You're not going to find a beautiful, newly renovated house in Rutherford for $500,000. In that sense, I think Rutherford is a little less affordable than some nearby towns.
I definitely think Rutherford is a great town, and it is definitely more affordable than some other places. However, it would be misleading to say the average middle class family can live there. Affording a $3000/month payment on a family income of 100,000 when you have kids is not easy.
The other problem with NJ housing is that the taxes are insane. For example, if your mortgage is $400,000 at 6% interest, that's about $2,400 a month for your mortage. Fair enough, but when you add in taxes (which can be 900+ a month), insurance, PMI (who can afford to put down 100,000 on a 500,000 house?), you're suddenly in the 3500-4000 range, which is nuts.
If taxes in NJ were lower, more people would be able to purchase houses. It's a huge difference. In NYC, the taxes on a 500,000 house may be 3,000 to 4,000 a year (yes, I know the NYC income tax helps to make up the difference). In northern NJ, you're looking at $10,000+.
Right on. And honestly, because of the insane housing prices, I wouldn't even classify towns like Rutherford, Fair Lawn, or Nutley as "middle class" anymore. You really have to be solidly upper-middle-class to be able to afford to live in these towns that used to be considered "middle class", and used to provide reasonably priced options for people wanting to move out of the cities. Having grown up in Fair Lawn, and having parents significantly older than my peers, I knew (and still know the few that are still with us) a lot of people who were born, raised, and lived significant portions of their lives in Paterson, and moved to Fair Lawn because it provided suburban life at a fair price for those who wanted it. I'm talking about hard-working, blue-collar people without any college education. These people would never be able to live in these towns if they were staring out today!
Now, the houses in these towns are more affordable than in places like Ridgewood, or Glen Rock, or even Paramus, but they're still quite expensive. (And let's face it. Ridgewood and Glen Rock, to me, are UPPER CLASS. Glen Rock may have been upper-middle-class twenty years ago, but the influx of new money into the town over the past several years has increased the affluence of the town quite a bit. Paramus, is at the higher end of upper-middle-class, IMHO.)
Approximately 1 hour to both Midtown Manhattan and Wall Street, that is door-to-door. Family time itself is a luxury, more important than having a Starbucks or Barnes & Nobles within walking distance IMO. I am not aware of any other town with equal schools that gives you that kind of commute. 9 out of 10 middle/high school according to Greatschools.net. 7 out of 10 for elemental schools.
Has enough Asian/Black/Hispanic to keep things diversified, while maintaining white as the dominant color.
Nice clean tree lined blocks, a decent downtown.
A ton of 3 bedroom houses under 500K, perfect for middle class families.
And according to CNN Money, a good town for rich singles too:
[URL="http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/moneymag/0906/gallery.bplive_richsingles.moneymag/22.html"]Best places for the rich and single - Rutherford, NJ (22) - Money Magazine[/URL]
Can any other town beat the overall package?
I live in Rutherford and when I drive to midtown it's easily a 15 minute drive. Depending on traffic of course, but if it's an easy ride, I'm there in 15. I'd say it's definately the one of the nicer/safer/closer NYC suburbs.
And taxes in this area are definately ridiculous. I know we pay over 5,000 a year for a one story house. I have family living in Nutley who have a two story house and are also paying well over 10k in taxes for their home.
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