Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I still dont see how a small private school can be run cheaper than a small public one since both would receive govt money either directly or indirectly through a voucher system.
To attract students a private school is going to have to sell itself by having the best facilities, teachers, and programs. Those cost money.
One way that they can be more efficient, is that they don't have to hold on to lousy teachers. Another is that they don't have to hold on to lousy students. If you're in a bad school district, just knowing that your child's school is willing to remove disruptive students is a strong selling point.
Quote:
As for quality, there are many very good school districts in NJ. I bet the worst ones are the Abbott districts. So these students get most of the vouchers. How does this help anyone else?
It gives them options. Options are worth real dollars. Even being able to choose between two things of comparable worth has value.
Larger schools can provide a greater variety of course work, but in terms of efficiency (which is really about covering the basics effectively at a modest cost), it's not clear why larger schools should be substantially better.
If vouchers were redeemable at private schools, enrollment there would increase anyway, so that would reduce the advantage that public schools have.
One way that they can be more efficient, is that they don't have to hold on to lousy teachers. Another is that they don't have to hold on to lousy students. If you're in a bad school district, just knowing that your child's school is willing to remove disruptive students is a strong selling point.
It gives them options. Options are worth real dollars. Even being able to choose between two things of comparable worth has value.
and private schools can hire lousy teachers who couldn't get hired publicly and who will work for peanuts. those teachers are also not bound by the same standards as those teaching in public, right?
and private schools can hire lousy teachers who couldn't get hired publicly and who will work for peanuts.
Yes, but no-one is forced to pay for these schools, let alone attend them.
Quote:
those teachers are also not bound by the same standards as those teaching in public, right?
It is possible to regulate them.
But it's also possible to let the parents decide whether they think that the schools are upholding "the same standards".
What do you think of the standards that teachers are "upholding" at, say, Malcolm X high school ? If you had a child in that district, would you consider moving them to a school where the teachers were "not bound by the same standards" ?
Another is that they don't have to hold on to lousy students. If you're in a bad school district, just knowing that your child's school is willing to remove disruptive students is a strong selling point.
It gives them options. Options are worth real dollars. Even being able to choose between two things of comparable worth has value.
Currently the law states private schools accepting vouchers cant refuse any student. I believe it's nationwide. This attempts to prevent discrimination, segregation and elitism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973
Larger schools can provide a greater variety of course work, but in terms of efficiency (which is really about covering the basics effectively at a modest cost), it's not clear why larger schools should be substantially better.
I'm assuming a teacher can manage a class of 25 just as well as one of 22. One principle can direct a school of 400 just as one of 250. A janitor same thing. Secretaries also. And I hope large schools are getting bulk discounts with insurance, supplies, equipment, etc.
If vouchers were redeemable at private schools, enrollment there would increase anyway, so that would reduce the advantage that public schools have.
If growth requires building new facilities, added costs there. Will the state fund it?
At the moment, the voucher system has it's strongest critics.
Also, I think a bright student will do well in any school district/environment (aside from bullying) and the inverse is true. An excellent school district/program doesnt guarantee success for the unmotivated disadvantaged student.
Education is a societal problem not one easily solved by money or rhetoric. For now I dont mind paying my share of local school tax even though I dont have any children. I have to trust that my local educators are using the money wisely for the student's best interests.
Currently the law states private schools accepting vouchers cant refuse any student. I believe it's nationwide. This attempts to prevent discrimination, segregation and elitism.
Can they not expel badly behaved students ?
Also, are high schools, which have to take all comers, less segregated and less prone to discrimination than universities, which don't ?
Quote:
If growth requires building new facilities, added costs there. Will the state fund it?
Unless the actual number of students increases, the number of buildings being used by the student population is constant. So why would more funding be needed ? Growth in one place would need to be balanced by consolidation or downsizing elsewhere.
Of course if it turned out that you were right, and it really were true that the economy of scale is the most efficient approach, allowing more competition between public schools would inevitably result in consolidation and efficiency gains.
Quote:
At the moment, the voucher system has it's strongest critics.
Also, I think a bright student will do well in any school district/environment (aside from bullying)
The "aside from bullying" is no minor issue. Great example of how a student can impose costs on others with impunity.
Quote:
and the inverse is true. An excellent school district/program doesnt guarantee success for the unmotivated disadvantaged student.
Yes, I agree that motivation is key here. That is why it is important to think about this problem in terms of incentives, as opposed to throwing cash into whatever money pit arises.
Quote:
Education is a societal problem not one easily solved by money or rhetoric. For now I dont mind paying my share of local school tax even though I dont have any children. I have to trust that my local educators are using the money wisely for the student's best interests.
Well, we have a fundamental disagreement here. I would trust someone to spend their own money (or for that matter, someone else's money) more efficiently than I would trust a bureaucracy to do the same.
I was talking to a teacher this week in my local school. She likes her new class but they moved her to a different elementary school. She doesnt mind as this one was recently built with State funds. I think it was the School Construction Program? Anyway, she was saying there are now 6 elementary schools in my small city and the parents choose which one they would like their child to attend. Each school has it's own strengths. Magnet schools she called them. I thought this was a great idea.
I was talking to a teacher this week in my local school. She likes her new class but they moved her to a different elementary school. She doesnt mind as this one was recently built with State funds. I think it was the School Construction Program? Anyway, she was saying there are now 6 elementary schools in my small city and the parents choose which one they would like their child to attend. Each school has it's own strengths. Magnet schools she called them. I thought this was a great idea.
Magnet schools are a great idea. It amounts to running high schools more like the state university system.
Note that the big factor that makes the difference is the introduction of the element of choice ! Students can select these schools. Also, some of these schools have a competitive admissions process.
McNair in Jersey City is a top rated school and several of the Magnet schools in Newark are quite good.
Yes, it sounds good. I am not familiar with the details but several parents I spoke with are very satisfied with the school system. The district also initiated uniforms for K-8.
I forgot to mention the teacher said 4th grade test scores have increased so the students may be benefiting with the magnet system. Whether the higher test scores follow through to graduation remains to be seen.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
