Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-10-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 6,259,147 times
Reputation: 605

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
and it doesnt have to. its a very simple job. it should be standardized not unique depending on the teachers abilities.
Not quite. The skills of a math or physics teacher don't have quite the same $ value as those of the underwater basket weaving teacher.

Schools should be able to pay the math/physics teachers what they're worth without paying the PE teacher what the math teacher is worth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-10-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,491,712 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973 View Post
Not quite. The skills of a math or physics teacher don't have quite the same $ value as those of the underwater basket weaving teacher.

Schools should be able to pay the math/physics teachers what they're worth without paying the PE teacher what the math teacher is worth.
they should just layoff the PE teachers. thats not really necessary as a part of school. they should contract out to a daycare program if parents dont want their kids home too early.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Ocean County
1,057 posts, read 1,908,561 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2Cfan View Post
For what it's worth (just an opinion, so not much), I agree with you on almost every score. I do, however, part company with you to some extent on the topic of teachers. A COMPETENT teacher deserves to be paid well. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that most teachers can neither articulate nor punctuate as well as you, a nurse. So when I encounter teachers grousing on an open forum, I will critically assess their respective posts and unleash snark and corrections as circumstances may warrant.

To do so is, imo, our duty to the schoolchildren of New Jersey.
Teachers' salaries are not what is breaking the bank in this state. The average classroom teacher will top out around $80K in most districts after starting at half that. The problem is that once we hire a teacher, we are essentially signing on the dotted line to pay them for life through guaranteed retirement benefits and lifetime health insurance.

The salaries can stay (hell, RAISE them a little bit if you want) but the pension must be converted to a matching 401K and they must contribute to their health insurance.

Same with police. And as far as police services go, it's insane that my town which is 20 blocks long and a total of .7-square miles (.7, not "7") has its own police department, with the next town of the same size having its own as well. Like in California and Florida, the county sheriff should provide police services to these towns. There should be a state law passed that mandates towns with a small number of residents or land area use county police services.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 6,259,147 times
Reputation: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeradoDan View Post
Teachers' salaries are not what is breaking the bank in this state. The average classroom teacher will top out around $80K in most districts after starting at half that. The problem is that once we hire a teacher, we are essentially signing on the dotted line to pay them for life through guaranteed retirement benefits and lifetime health insurance.

The salaries can stay (hell, RAISE them a little bit if you want) but the pension must be converted to a matching 401K and they must contribute to their health insurance.

Same with police. And as far as police services go, it's insane that my town which is 20 blocks long and a total of .7-square miles (.7, not "7") has its own police department, with the next town of the same size having its own as well. Like in California and Florida, the county sheriff should provide police services to these towns. There should be a state law passed that mandates towns with a small number of residents or land area use county police services.
This is spot on. Unfortunately, it's really difficult to explain this to the voters, and the benefits of addressing this have delayed payoff (our costs today arise largely from yesterday's lofty promises).

Therefore, fixing the problem is difficult to accomplish politically. The unions certainly understand the implications of addressing these issues, and will campaign against any attempt to shut down the gravy train. So not only does a politician trying to shut this down end up enraging the unions, they aren't rewarded for the resulting savings (because the voters will wonder why their property taxes don't go down overnight)

It's not impossible to fix, but it will take someone with a thick skin to get it done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 12:29 PM
 
5,616 posts, read 15,476,741 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen Chin View Post
Good, I hope he uses every possible tool at his disposal to knock some reality into the unions. They negotiated annual raises for 2009 and 2010 under Corzine, during a time when many in the private sector are losing their jobs or facing wage cuts. Well, that's just plain unrealistic, if not downright selfish. Perhaps if they had considered giving a hand in the past they wouldn't be facing losing a whole arm now.

Escape From NJ
Right on Chin!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Stuck in AZ for now
82 posts, read 138,920 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeradoDan View Post
Teachers' salaries are not what is breaking the bank in this state. The average classroom teacher will top out around $80K in most districts after starting at half that. The problem is that once we hire a teacher, we are essentially signing on the dotted line to pay them for life through guaranteed retirement benefits and lifetime health insurance.
That wasn't my point. I thought it was clear, but apparently not: incompetent teachers don't deserve to be hired, let alone paid well or given tenure and perks.

Right. And like I said, I'll continue to challenge incompetent teachers whenever I encounter them grousing in public forums. I wish everyone, especially competent teachers, would do the same.

(I appreciate and agree with your commentary on policing and county sheriffs.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Stuck in AZ for now
82 posts, read 138,920 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973 View Post
This is spot on. Unfortunately, it's really difficult to explain this to the voters, and the benefits of addressing this have delayed payoff (our costs today arise largely from yesterday's lofty promises).

Therefore, fixing the problem is difficult to accomplish politically. The unions certainly understand the implications of addressing these issues, and will campaign against any attempt to shut down the gravy train. So not only does a politician trying to shut this down end up enraging the unions, they aren't rewarded for the resulting savings (because the voters will wonder why their property taxes don't go down overnight)

It's not impossible to fix, but it will take someone with a thick skin to get it done.
And the rest of us to back up that thick-skinned and tenacious leader, whoever it may turn out to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Ocean County
1,057 posts, read 1,908,561 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2Cfan View Post
That wasn't my point. I thought it was clear, but apparently not: incompetent teachers don't deserve to be hired, let alone paid well or given tenure and perks.

Right. And like I said, I'll continue to challenge incompetent teachers whenever I encounter them grousing in public forums. I wish everyone, especially competent teachers, would do the same.

(I appreciate and agree with your commentary on policing and county sheriffs.)
I don't think there are too many outright incompetent teachers out there. There are plenty of lazy ones, however. Though how could one not get bored robotically teaching to standardized tests?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Stuck in AZ for now
82 posts, read 138,920 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeradoDan View Post
I don't think there are too many outright incompetent teachers out there. There are plenty of lazy ones, however. Though how could one not get bored robotically teaching to standardized tests?
Excellent point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Gila County Arizona
990 posts, read 2,543,438 times
Reputation: 2420
Simply by TALKING about it, Christie has done more than Corslime did to address the budget problems in four years.

As far as municipal workers are concerned, note your tax bill...

Half your tax bill goes directly for school funding...

Of the other half, Half of that, 1/4 goes to support the county you live in.

The entire rest of the municipal budget is the remaining 1/4 of your tax bill. This takes in office administration, Police, Street department, snow plowing, parks etc..

It seems easy to identify where some problems are waiting to be fixed. All it takes is the political will, and an ability to weather the storm of controversy.


EDIT, Before I get gang jumped, all percentages are approximate, but generally correct.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top