NJ == Doomed (Newark, Edison, East Orange: sales, real estate, apartment)
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The games not over!..The colony has failed, we all know this...Return Jersey to England..Ask
for forgiveness, we will get free medical..send the kids to college for free, we will get trains again and
roundabouts ...Sure our taxes will be high, but we will be a burden on England....Don't say its over!
We can do something....
Not going to save enough money to deal with the states problems.
No, but it would help
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
These expenses come primarilly out of property taxes ...
Yes, and they are the HIGHEST in the nation. The education system in this state is a black hole for money. Add onto that the fact that we have abbot districts.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
That would stop expenses increasing, but won't reduce them.
True, but even someone as optimistic about fixing this state as myself knows that there's almost no way they'll accept a pay cut.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
Actually cutting the budget is very difficult, because large parts of it (such as pensions and benefits) aren't discretionary (the state would need to declare bankruptcy to renegotiate those deals). This is exacerbated by the fact that the spending politicians can control is largely that a decade into the future. But they lose politically by trying to control tomorrow's spending (it upsets the unions, and the public don't see the benefits for years)
They need to be able to tell the unions (especially the NJEA) where they can shove it. The problem is that no-one cares about the PEOPLE. They only care about the money and getting enough votes to keep it coming. There is a LOT of discretionary money that the state wastes by giving out contracts that cost WAY more than they should to their friends.
The games not over!..The colony has failed, we all know this...Return Jersey to England..Ask
for forgiveness, we will get free medical..send the kids to college for free, we will get trains again and
roundabouts ...Sure our taxes will be high, but we will be a burden on England....Don't say its over!
We can do something....
They already have a Jersey, are you sure they'll want a new one
Like the titanic going down, this is the point where the ship snaps in half. people are collecting unemployment because businesses are struggling and can't afford to keep them on the payroll. Lets fix this by putting more of a burden on these companies.Smart money will leave the likes of NJ,NY and CA in the dust. Let these tax exhorbinant states suffer their own demise
Looming unemployment-tax hike divides N.J. officials | Philadelphia Inquirer | 12/25/2009 (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/80102357.html - broken link)
Just curious, did you post a response to the story in the link, or are you plagiarizing someone else's comment?
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Originally Posted by dhanu86
It seems like tax hikes are the only solution to anything these days. Ut! Now listen u little citizen.. you are unemployed and irrepsonsible so we must collect more tax to fix this system and keep it breathing. Is that the sole function of a leader?
For the record, both parties raise taxes and anyone who says otherwise is too ignorant to exist (I am not saying that this is what you are getting at). However, did you even bother to read the article? I am going to say no based on your post. The unemployed are not going to pay more in taxes. Every employer pays into the state's unemployment fund and it is the employer, not the employee, who will be asked to pay more. The amount that an employer currently pays is directly proportional to their history of lay-offs/firings. Basically, the more an employer cans employees, the more they are required to pay. Maybe this would be an incentive for employers to not dismiss employees?
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Originally Posted by jknic
2. Consolidate school districts eliminating unneeded administrative positions
Maybe these positions are not needed, maybe they are, but I find it interesting that as a solution you are suggesting to un-employ more people, thus adding to the burden. At the very least they should be moved into a more appropriate position instead.
I don't think you completely followed the point of my post, so let me elaborate -- nothing that you have proposed would substantially improve state finances. Investigating the expenses of Camden or any other city will not do much to address problems with state finances.
Regarding comment by K-luv about eliminating admin positions increasing the public burden -- I disagree with this. Paying them temporary unemployment (less than their full salary) is painful in the short term, but in the long term, it reduces costs. I do agree that they should be moved to more "appropriate" positions: in the private sector.
For the record, both parties raise taxes and anyone who says otherwise is too ignorant to exist (I am not saying that this is what you are getting at). However, did you even bother to read the article? I am going to say no based on your post. The unemployed are not going to pay more in taxes. Every employer pays into the state's unemployment fund and it is the employer, not the employee, who will be asked to pay more. The amount that an employer currently pays is directly proportional to their history of lay-offs/firings. Basically, the more an employer cans employees, the more they are required to pay. Maybe this would be an incentive for employers to not dismiss employees?
Way to begin with left/right. I think u are missing the bigger picture. Unemployment is still going higher, I dont care how pleasant the smaller details are for nonbusiness owners.
Last edited by knoxgarden; 12-29-2009 at 11:12 PM..
NJ is in fine shape. Yes, there are problems here, as there are in any state. Our problems are not nearly as dire as most states. There is no utopia anywhere; everyplace, including NJ, will have a certain amount of problems. But NJ is still one of the best states (if not the best state) in which to live in the opinions of most people, as evidenced by their spending tons of $$$ to continue to move to here and to live here.
As for the doom&gloomers on this NJ forum at city-data, all I can say is that the fact that they talk doom & gloom for NJ yet continue to choose to stay here says it all - they don't REALLY believe most of the doom & gloom they preach, they are just looking to troll, basically.
If NJ were truly like the titanic, about to go under for the final time, people who believe this would be getting out while the getting's even as good as it is. But they don't, they never do, they just stay and continue to talk doom & gloom. Meanwhile, here we all still are, doing fine, living in NJ...
It's a lot like these end-of-the-world prophets who keep predicting the end of the world and every time it doesn't happen on the date they predicted they push the date back and insist that THIS time the end is actually near.
NJ is in fine shape. Yes, there are problems here, as there are in any state. Our problems are not nearly as dire as most states. There is no utopia anywhere; everyplace, including NJ, will have a certain amount of problems. But NJ is still one of the best states (if not the best state) in which to live in the opinions of most people, as evidenced by their spending tons of $$$ to continue to move to here and to live here.
That's great if you have the tons of $$$ required.
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As for the doom&gloomers on this NJ forum at city-data, all I can say is that the fact that they talk doom & gloom for NJ yet continue to choose to stay here says it all - they don't REALLY believe most of the doom & gloom they preach, they are just looking to troll, basically
I think there's another issue here, and that is, we don't want to become the next California. CA is also a wildly successful state in a number of ways -- in technology, academia, or art and culture, it is an international center. Yet today it is brought to its knees by a lack of willingness or ability on part of the leaders and people to make tough choices and manage state finances responsibly.
If NJ's fiscal time bombs -- pension and retirement benefits aren't defused, NJ will certainly not be the first to have a pension scheme blow up in their faces (and almost certainly not the last!). Indeed, one might argue that this would put NJ in distinguished company.
But that's not a reason to dislike NJ or pack your bags and leave today. It's a reason to fight the good fight and insist that the leaders address the issues.
The major difference between NJ and CA is that it doesn't require 2/3 of the NJ state legislature to raise taxes or set the state budget. CA's legislature is a picture-perfect example of political inaction brought upon itself by its own procedural rules.
It also doesn't help when you factor-in schizophrenic ballot initiatives in every election. How is a state to function when the electorate approves a billion+ dollar project one year then revokes it two years later, only to reinstate the initiative in the next election? It's maddening, and its all the more reason why NJ will not follow the same financial path of CA. There are problems, many are severe, but these added hurdles that CA deals with do not exist in NJ.
That's great if you have the tons of $$$ required.
It doesn't require tons of $$$ to move to or stay in NJ, unless you demand a large home and/or property.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
I think there's another issue here, and that is, we don't want to become the next California. CA is also a wildly successful state in a number of ways -- in technology, academia, or art and culture, it is an international center. Yet today it is brought to its knees by a lack of willingness or ability on part of the leaders and people to make tough choices and manage state finances responsibly.
If NJ's fiscal time bombs -- pension and retirement benefits aren't defused, NJ will certainly not be the first to have a pension scheme blow up in their faces (and almost certainly not the last!). Indeed, one might argue that this would put NJ in distinguished company.
But that's not a reason to dislike NJ or pack your bags and leave today. It's a reason to fight the good fight and insist that the leaders address the issues.
Again, lots of big, big, bashing talk from doom & gloomers, and still their actions don't match their (ever-changing) claims. We share that with California also - they, too, have their malcontents and dissenters who bash their state, yet somehow the price of living in CA goes up and up as it does in NJ. And somehow it has nothing at all to do with the market, claim the bashers
Anyway, my point remains... Bashers should realize that all their doom & gloom whining and prophecies of NJ's demise hold about as much credibility as the prophecies of the crazy guy on the street holding up a sign and yelling that the world is coming to an end this Saturday, while that prophecy falls untrue every week....it's really old at this point.
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