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Orion99 - If you do move to NC, I hope you'll be "poor enough" to enjoy it! For me, it was easy because NC doesn't levy a state income tax on my federal pension, but for say, a retired cop, you might be in for a shock when you find out that NC taxes you up the ying-yang on your pension. NJ's highest income tax bracket comes in for incomes greater than $250,000. In NC, that highest bracket (nearly 9%) starts at $60,000. I've met so many NJ & NY folks who were "crowing" that they saved a fortune with NC's low property taxes, only to start crying when they find out that the NC income taxes have nearly erased any savings on the difference in property taxes between the two states. Shop carefully by state, for "overall taxes" before you move. I also found that NC is a lot more greedy than NJ when it comes to inheritance taxes too! For very wealthy people, NJ may turn out to be cheaper than they think! Paradoxical isn't it?
Comparing NJ and NC side by side
NJ The Tax Foundation - Tax Research Areas > New Jersey
In 2009, out of 50 states NJ
11.8% of income the State/Local tax burden (read property taxes) = highest in nation
mod cut: copyright violation
There are some other comparables I'd love to see on these charts, the most significant I think is food. I'd love to gauge the food costs between states, because this is one hidden consideration: I think food in NJ grocery stores is actually cheaper than the national average.
Orion99 - If you do move to NC, I hope you'll be "poor enough" to enjoy it! For me, it was easy because NC doesn't levy a state income tax on my federal pension, but for say, a retired cop, you might be in for a shock when you find out that NC taxes you up the ying-yang on your pension. NJ's highest income tax bracket comes in for incomes greater than $250,000. In NC, that highest bracket (nearly 9%) starts at $60,000. I've met so many NJ & NY folks who were "crowing" that they saved a fortune with NC's low property taxes, only to start crying when they find out that the NC income taxes have nearly erased any savings on the difference in property taxes between the two states. Shop carefully by state, for "overall taxes" before you move. I also found that NC is a lot more greedy than NJ when it comes to inheritance taxes too! For very wealthy people, NJ may turn out to be cheaper than they think! Paradoxical isn't it?
Wow! good to know. Perhaps Panama would be better for me.
Comparing NJ and NC side by side
NJ The Tax Foundation - Tax Research Areas > New Jersey
In 2009, out of 50 states NJ
11.8% of income the State/Local tax burden (read property taxes) = highest in nation
mod cut: copyright violation
There are some other comparables I'd love to see on these charts, the most significant I think is food. I'd love to gauge the food costs between states, because this is one hidden consideration: I think food in NJ grocery stores is actually cheaper than the national average.
Yes Mike, Food is more expensive in NC. An example: Thomas's English Muffins $2.99 regular price. The other kinds with raisins or whole wheat are $3.99 and don't forget the 2.5% sales tax on food!
I couldn't disagree with #4 more. In fact, I think that's a big reason why many choose to stay in Northern New Jersey. It's been discussed almost to death in this forum. Northern New Jersey's suburbs, along with Western and Southern Connecticut, and Massachusetts, are most definitely the safest in the country. It's a testament to the high population density that these figures are mostly as low as they are. Suburbs with comparable population density outside of the Northeast and Upper Midwest have much higher property (and personal) crime figures.
The OP mentioned crime when crime has gone down for 3 years straight. That's obviously why people aren't moving. People are leaving Jersey period because the cost of living is expensive and on top of that, there's really nothing over here that's worth it.
There are some other comparables I'd love to see on these charts, the most significant I think is food. I'd love to gauge the food costs between states, because this is one hidden consideration: I think food in NJ grocery stores is actually cheaper than the national average.
I keep hearing about these huge food price disparities, but I'm not seeing it. At first, I felt like I was paying a lot more for food in GA, but after looking at prices in NJ when I was there in November, it's not as big of a difference as it first seemed. I figure I'm spending +/- an extra $10-15/week on groceries at most, which equates to $500-750/year. Add in the 2% sales tax on food (on +/- $150 in groceries a week), and that's another roughly $3/week, or $150/year.
I'll gladly take the $650-900/year hit there in exchange for the $8-10k/year delta in property taxes and the $18-24k/year savings on mortgage payments if I was to live in the same house in NJ. Even comparing my current house to the much smaller, older home that we left in NJ, I'm still saving almost $4k in property taxes, and my mortgage payment is around $3k less per year. My state taxes are around $1,200/year higher than in NJ on the same income, but after writing that off on my federal return, it's less than a grand. My net tax savings is still around $2,000-$2,500, and I've got that $3k in mortgage payment savings, so all in I'm about $5,000 to the good for a better house in a better neighborhood. I'll take that.
I wouldn't say people are leaving North NJ, because just as many are coming in, not only immigrants but NYers and people looking for better opportunity from around the country. North NJ is developed, a mix of poor and rich. Many people aren't willing to save and live in affordable towns like Plainfield or Perth Amboy, so our cities are being settled by people who appreciate them. I'd say crime is low too with the exception of Newark. Then some people like me are just relocating to other towns, for some it takes years and years to start over in a whole new part of the country and feel at home.
Off the top of my head, without thinking or reading all the other comments. As much as I love NJ, living in Bergen County, and being so close to NYC, I HATE, HATE, HATE the following:
traffic,
overpriced housing,
winters & shoveling,
the high cost of everything,
and the materialistic, "me, me, me" lifestyle it is.
I'd like to relocate within the next 4-5 years to either South Carolina, or Florida.
People are leaving for many, many reasons, but the primary reason is simple: NJ doesn't offer anything that other states don't for a cheaper price.
It is the most overpopulated state, highest taxes to the point of insanity.
You can find what's here in New Jersey for a better price elsewhere.
Do you want beaches? Move to Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Texas, Florida, etc.
Do you want forests/state parks? Move to Tennessee, Kentucky, Maine, Vermont, etc.
Do you want nice cities? It doesn't matter, New Jersey doesn't have any.
What do you mean we don't have nice cities? New Brunswick , Jersey City , parts of Newark,are nice. Although we have many smaller nice towns then cities.
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