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funny - every state worker I know (non NJEA) has been salary freezed and furloughed...under Corzine. But let's not let a good Christie a** kissing get in the way of that! LOL
Don't forget increasing the retirement age, which is about the only legal way to cut pension benefits to those already in the system.
I never really got the rage about Corzine -- maybe there are several hard core Republicans on here. To me he seemed considerably more responsible than Whitman (for example).
How true. Just like he kicked the 13 billion hole we are in to Christie. He was horrible but some people won't admit.From an overpaid govt. worker.The gigs up people.
Just like Whitman was the one to empty that can and then kick it on down the line to Corzine and Christie, but hey, let's not talk about that. I think teachers who believe that pensions should be cut should show their firm belief by voluntarily forfeiting their pensions. Yeah, like that would ever happen...
What the hell is that guy going to do with a phys ed degree besides teach?
Whatever he makes he's overpaid
He makes far more as a personal trainer for wealthy housewives in Bergen County, but he prefers the security of his teaching job. But that's what else he could do besides teach. His wife is a nutrtionist and occupational therapist in the private sector but they use his benefits since they're better.
He can't be "overpaid" if the market supports his wages, and it does.
If this is all about the teachers getting "revenge" on the tax payer who supposedly ostracized and ridiculed them back when they were "poor", then allow me to break it to you -- the tax payer will get the last laugh. (Never mind that neither I nor many of the other tax payers ever ridiculed a teacher ... ) Biting the hand that feeds you is never wise.
I don't know where you're getting a "revenge" scenario from. I also don't know who you are talking about that is biting the hand that feeds him. If any of this is about my anecdote about my two friends, the teacher and the engineer, that story was to illustrate how the engineer, who chose to work in the private sector, didn't have a problem with the difference between his and the teacher's jobs UNTIL his wagering on the private sector fell short and he didn't get the big payoff he always hoped for. The point is that people who whine about public sector workers and make blanket statements like all their salaries should be frozen are a bunch of bitter, failing jackasses who are doing so out of bitterness and selfishness. Not revenge, but just irrational, tantrum-throwing selfishness. Like the baby who just points at the candy and cries and won't listen to reason.
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
It's got nothing to do with a few "failures" bullying the teachers. It is the most "succesful" among us who are being milked the most. The NJ tax payer has been milked for too long, and they've given Christie the green light to wield the hatchet without mercy.
The NJ tax payer gets all the benefits of living in NJ in exchange for his taxes. If someone perceives that as being "milked" then that person would be a stupid fool to continue to choose to be "milked".
Some people think that Lexus buyers are "milked" for their money when they buy a Lexus. But those who choose to buy a Lexus don't feel that way, which is why they choose to buy the Lexus. Someone who feels Lexus is "milking" him for the price of the Lexus would, if he had brains, choose to buy another car elsewhere where he feels he is not being "milked". But someone who buys a Lexus (or any other high priced item) and complains of being "milked" and talks about what better deals there are is either a stupid fool to enter into a deal where he is being milked OR is a filthy lying fool who KNOWS he really isn't being "milked" but is using this complaint because he's so selfish he thinks he's entitled to get something for nothing.
As for Christie, all he's done so far is blow hot air. Soon the hot air will come out the other end of his body and he'll lay an egg as the Democratic reps will stymie his idiotic, idle threats. I'm sure he's just making a lot of noise because he knows he can just later blame it on a House that wouldn't cooperate. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know - let's see what he does.
He makes far more as a personal trainer for wealthy housewives in Bergen County, but he prefers the security of his teaching job. But that's what else he could do besides teach. His wife is a nutrtionist and occupational therapist in the private sector but they use his benefits since they're better.
He can't be "overpaid" if the market supports his wages, and it does.
The market doesn't support his wages.. education is anything but a free market. You either send your kid to public school, pay property taxes and fund this dope's salary, or send your kid to private school, yet still pay your property taxes and fund this dope's salary.
He only gets what he gets because of a stupid "pay everyone the same" mentality whereby since you need to pay math majors more to attract them to the profession, the lard assed gym teacher gets paid more also.
Last edited by knoxgarden; 03-02-2010 at 10:48 AM..
Reason: removed personal attack
I don't know where you're getting a "revenge" scenario from. I also don't know who you are talking about that is biting the hand that feeds him. If any of this is about my anecdote about my two friends, the teacher and the engineer, that story was to illustrate how the engineer, who chose to work in the private sector, didn't have a problem with the difference between his and the teacher's jobs UNTIL his wagering on the private sector fell short and he didn't get the big payoff he always hoped for. The point is that people who whine about public sector workers and make blanket statements like all their salaries should be frozen are a bunch of bitter, failing jackasses who are doing so out of bitterness and selfishness. Not revenge, but just irrational, tantrum-throwing selfishness. Like the baby who just points at the candy and cries and won't listen to reason.
I think it is very much a revenge scenario when public sector workers start gloating because the pendulum has swung in their favor. This isn't even about success of an individual public sector worker, it's about gloating because the whole thing has gotten bigger
If anyone in the private sector took such pleasure in putting one over their customers, they'd stop paying
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The NJ tax payer gets all the benefits of living in NJ in exchange for his taxes.
Most of these "benefits" (e.g. proximity to Manhattan, great parks) are not provided by the teachers union -- therefore the tax payer has figured out that he doesn't need to pay rents to the various extortionnists "in exchange" for these benefits. What's happened in NJ is that we have an army of rent seekers who are much like the highwayman who insists that you pay him a "toll" "in exchange" for using the road (which he doesn't own and didn't provide).
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If someone perceives that as being "milked" then that person would be a stupid fool to continue to choose to be "milked".
That's why they voted in Christie
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Some people think that Lexus buyers are "milked" for their money when they buy a Lexus.
What does buying a Lexus have to do with it ? As far as I know, I can still enjoy the benefits of a Lexus without paying some extortion rent to my local racketeers.
I think this man is a pleasant surprise, so far. I wasn't very high on him last year during the primary season, but his style of governance is growing.
The market doesn't support his wages.. education is anything but a free market. You either send your kid to public school, pay property taxes and fund this dope's salary, or send your kid to private school, yet still pay your property taxes and fund this dope's salary.
Who said anything about a "free" market??? There is no "free" market, except for maybe the black market(s). We have always had a regulated market, never had a "free" market in the USA. So, yes, the market - the regulated market we have - supports his salary. If someone wants to be stupid or elitist and send his/her kids to a private school instead of the public school my friend teaches in (which is most likely better than any private school in the area) then that person's stupidity falls upon him/herself.
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Originally Posted by billb7581
He only gets what he gets because of a stupid "pay everyone the same" mentality whereby since you need to pay math majors more to attract them to the profession, the lard assed gym teacher gets paid more also.
If your town has a "lard assed gym teacher" then that's their problem, not mine. My town doesn't. And my friend isn't a "lard assed gym teacher", either. In any case, he doesn't get paid as much as a math teacher with comparable experience in his school, except that he makes up for that in coaching a sport each season. So much for the mythical "'pay everyone the same' mentality".
Lets use 1 small town in NJ. Stafford offered ONLY a 9 percent raise for 4 years. The police are mad and won't take it. They make almost a 100K in 3 years to patrol the burbs. The town now will lay off 5 officers because the cops are greedy and won't take the raise. The town should ask for a 10 percent giveback and still lay off the overpriced cops.
I think it is very much a revenge scenario when public sector workers start gloating because the pendulum has swung in their favor. This isn't even about success of an individual public sector worker, it's about gloating because the whole thing has gotten bigger
Where are public sector workers "gloating"??
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
If anyone in the private sector took such pleasure in putting one over their customers, they'd stop paying
Hardly... Just look at Bank of America or the American auto industry.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
Most of these "benefits" (e.g. proximity to Manhattan, great parks) are not provided by the teachers union -- therefore the tax payer has figured out that he doesn't need to pay rents to the various extortionnists "in exchange" for these benefits.
Proximity to Manhattan is a benefit one can find in the South Bronx and Bed Stuy, with the added benefit of inexpensive mass transit to Manhattan. Still, those are less desirable than most Northern NJ neighborhoods. Why? Because the benefits of living in northern NJ go beyond "proximity to Manhattan", and include top quality public schools, of which the teachers are a main component.
As for "extortionists", where? Where is the extortion? Extortion is illegal. Oh wait - I get it. You're using that word in the same way an anarchist/libertarian would use the word, redefining the government's legal and constitutionally-defined role in levying taxes and spending the funds on resources that protect the public, turning that legal and constitutional role into an illegal form of robbery to fit the stupid and idiotic anarchist political agenda. Gotcha, loud and clear.
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
What's happened in NJ is that we have an army of rent seekers who are much like the highwayman who insists that you pay him a "toll" "in exchange" for using the road (which he doesn't own and didn't provide).
Except that the highwayman does own and provide the road...but hey, that doesn't fit in with the Ayn Rand fantasy of taxes being "TYRRANY!!! "
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Originally Posted by elflord1973
That's why they voted in Christie
That's also why they voted in the other Christie - Whitman. Of course, she milked them more than Florio, McGreevey, and Corzine (and probably Christie by the end of his first term) combined.
No matter what, Christie can't make magic happen. If he turns out to do a great job, and I hope he does, he will shave off some waste while maintaining or improving the benefits that we are used to in NJ, but it still won't assuage the fact that costs are high in NJ and people are demanding high spending by voting for it on the municipal level, from where it spreads to the state level. You can't go out and buy a luxury and then complain to the farmer that you can't afford to eat because he raised the price of his apples a nickel apiece; but, that's essentially what many New Jerseyans are doing. And they find every manner possible to spin it, the most popular being the co-opting of anarchist/libertarian arguments when and where it suits them. But, that's what the conservative agenda is fueling in people and it's disingenuous and stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elflord1973
What does buying a Lexus have to do with it ? As far as I know, I can still enjoy the benefits of a Lexus without paying some extortion rent to my local racketeers.
It's an analogy. You can't enjoy the benefits of a Lexus by paying for a Hyundai. To enjoy the benefits of a Lexus, you have to buy a Lexus. If the Lexus is too expensiive, move on and find a car that's more suitable in delivering the features you want at the price you want to pay. Maybe a Chevy is better for you, or a Honda. Maybe a Mercedes. Maybe a Rolls Royce. But if it's not the Lexus that is delivering what one wants for a price he finds fair, then he'd be stupid moron to buy the Lexus anyway and would have nobody to blame for his choice but himself. If he blamed Lexus for his choice people would rightly look at him like he's nuts.
As for extortion, there is no extortion involved here.
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