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The kids will do just fine. Honors students come from Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, and Elizabeth and go on to become doctors and lawyers and researchers and whatever. If the parents are taking care of business the right way, so will the kids. Regardless of a few less programs and luxuries.
We need much lower taxes now or we won't even have a state worth living in. That comes first, even before education.
As it's always interesting to see what is said about New Jersey teachers on this forum (I’ve lurked but not registered/posted for a long time), I thought I would offer my own personal perspective. As they say, "Where you stand depends upon where you sit." Well, last night I sat consoling my wife who, while its not official just yet, is going to be laid off from her job as a teacher at the end of the year. This is not a thread meant to vilify Chris Christie or to criticize the union because, quite frankly, I find fault with both of them. My wife's district's funding was cut to the point that they will need to eliminate non-tenured staff in order to make up the gap after cutting other non-personnel related expenditures. I understand what the Governor is faced with and what he is trying to do, etc... I also understand that the offer was made to all locals of the union to contribute 1.5% of salary toward health benefits, and to agree to a one year wage freeze, which her local is not supporting. Due to these two factors, she and the other non-tenured staff are going to lose their jobs. Teachers and their union take an awful lot of flack on this board and I suppose some will line up in the "it's the union's fault" camp-others will line up in the "it's Christie's fault" camp. I see it both ways.
I fault Governor Christie not for cutting the district aid in the first place, but rather for cutting it knowing full well that the youngest, freshest, and in many cases, enthusiastic teachers would be let go. I would think that there must be a way to cut budgets a little more precisely by challenging the status quo with regard to the way that school districts are run. Specifically, I heard a report on the news this morning that over 700 district officials statewide make more than the Commissioner of Education! The Commissioner's salary is something like $154K per year. The fact that there was never a salary cap for Superintendents and the like put in place years ago is insane! By state law no Commissioner can make more than the Governor-so why should Superintendents!? No public employee should make more than the highest ranking public employee in the state! I don't know for certain, but I highly doubt that any federal government official makes more than the President. In any event, if the Governor were to explain to the public that schools need to be held accountable for their administrative costs, he would likely win the support of the general public and union members alike. What we have now are tenured and non-tenured staff pitted against each other, and the general public pitted against all teachers.
Now, though I don't agree with the union's position of no contribution to health benefits and no wage freeze, I do see their motivation. They are afraid that if they make any concession at all that it will send them (and their members) down a slippery slope to lower pay, lower benefits, etc... It's no secret that most members of the general public in New Jersey have an extremely low opinion of teachers. Most people simply view teachers as overpaid babysitters that they send their children to for six hours a day, who loaf all summer and whine about how underpaid they are. If teacher pay were put to referendum tomorrow teachers would be making minimum wage. I'm in no position to change anyone's mind, I know how much my wife loves her job, how hard she works, and how much she cares about her students and that's good enough for me. It would just be nice for people to understand where the union is coming from now that they're backed into a corner. If I could send a message to the union and the Governor right now I'd say tell school districts to cut/cap the administrative spending, tell the union to starting paying into health benefits and agree to a temporary wage freeze, and let's re-evaluate this whole mess in a year-would that be so hard?
I close with addressing the fact that most folks don't think that teachers live in "the real world." Trust me, the world is very real for us-my wife will receive her last check June 30th and though she will commit all of her energy to finding a new job, what district could possibly be in a position to hire anyone right now? She is also looking for private sector jobs but let's be realistic, that's not exactly looking rosy right now either. I'm lucky in the sense that I'm a federal civillian employee at Fort Dix and my employment is not in jeopardy, but my salary is not near enough for us to live on, and she is not covered under my health benefits because after we got married we decided it was simply too expensive to add her and she didn't really need them anyway. Now we are faced with what to once she loses her benefits this summer-even if I wanted to add her I can't because "open enrollment" isn't until December. That's besides the fact that with her on unemployment and me having to pay for both of our health coverage we'll be on shaky financial ground anyway. We were actually thinking of trying to apply for part time jobs with a company that offers part timers health benefits (there are some out there) in the hopes that with both of us working part time we could almost replace her salary and get health coverage for her at the same time. I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm just trying to emphasize the fact that we do actually know what folks in the private sector are going through. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on this.
That was a very thoughtful post. I take exception to the statement that most people have a low opinion of teachers. Most people have a rather high opinion of teachers, but teachers like other civil servants never (or seemingly never) suffer the same cuts in salaries and benefits like those of us in the private sector. With the state economy being in the situation it is if civil servents do not willingly share the pain the rest of us do they will not find much sympathy when forced to do it.
It strikes me as the unions fault that your wife is being laid off. It is their bargaining that produced the situation that people are permitted to keep their jobs by simply hanging around long enough. If teachers were laid of as a matter of merit I suspect your wife would not be in the situation she finds herself.
My sister has been teaching in a South Jersey district for 35 years. She pays 4% for her healthcare & her district told the teachers that the governor wants them to pay 1.5% more. She spends several hours every night doing prep work. Oh, yeah, & most years she gets to pay for most of her class room supplies & frequently has to furnish supplies to students whose parents don't feel like buying them.
So, considering that my sister's district pays an obscene amount to their superintendant & his assistants, have you considered what they actually do for their salaries.
This is not true! The 1.5% that they are being asked to pay is the floor rate not a rate increase. If they were paying nothing they are now paying 1.5%. If they were paying less then 1.5% they are now paying 1.5%. If they were paying more than 1.5% they will not need to contribute any MORE to their benefits.
That was a very thoughtful post. I take exception to the statement that most people have a low opinion of teachers. Most people have a rather high opinion of teachers, but teachers like other civil servants never (or seemingly never) suffer the same cuts in salaries and benefits like those of us in the private sector. With the state economy being in the situation it is if civil servents do not willingly share the pain the rest of us do they will not find much sympathy when forced to do it.
You got that part right. In my town, they are willing to lay off 10 -15 teachers in order to preserve the 4% raises the teachers contract mandates for next year. If anyone is to blame it is the teachers themselves for refusing to share the burden. Instead they are willing to sacrifice their own "brotherhood" for financial gain.
Unions today stand for one thing " a bunch of hoodlums out for their own betterment". I think this quote says it all for the NJEA "We have met the enemy and he is US"
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Originally Posted by NewBlood
This is not true! The 1.5% that they are being asked to pay is the floor rate not a rate increase. If they were paying nothing they are now paying 1.5%. If they were paying less then 1.5% they are now paying 1.5%. If they were paying more than 1.5% they will not need to contribute any MORE to their benefits.
Well, my sister & her husband currently pay 4%, & their district told the teachers in that district that the governor wants an accross the board 1.5% tacked on & that would bring their contribution to 5.5%. This is what the administration told the teachers. You know, the people making the big bucks that no one seems to care about.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by shorebaby
That was a very thoughtful post. I take exception to the statement that most people have a low opinion of teachers. Most people have a rather high opinion of teachers, but teachers like other civil servants never (or seemingly never) suffer the same cuts in salaries and benefits like those of us in the private sector. With the state economy being in the situation it is if civil servents do not willingly share the pain the rest of us do they will not find much sympathy when forced to do it.
It strikes me as the unions fault that your wife is being laid off. It is their bargaining that produced the situation that people are permitted to keep their jobs by simply hanging around long enough. If teachers were laid of as a matter of merit I suspect your wife would not be in the situation she finds herself.
I wish both you and your wife the best of luck.
How many teachers' positions could be saved if the superintendant & his or her assistants took a pay cut? The superintendants are making obscene salaries, & just what are they doing for that salary?
How many teachers' positions could be saved if the superintendant & his or her assistants took a pay cut? The superintendants are making obscene salaries, & just what are they doing for that salary?
Someone in South Jersey did that... lower part of Voorhees maybe? He took about a $100k pay cut to around $50k a year to save teacher's jobs.
Well, my sister & her husband currently pay 4%, & their district told the teachers in that district that the governor wants an accross the board 1.5% tacked on & that would bring their contribution to 5.5%. This is what the administration told the teachers. You know, the people making the big bucks that no one seems to care about.
southbound_295 - This may be a case of apples and oranges! Your sister was probably paying 4% of her health care costs as opposed to the 1.5% of her salary for health care costs. For example, if her health care policy costs her school system $4000 a year, she was paying $160 a year as her contribution. Now, if her salary is $70,000, under Christie's formula she would pay ($700 x 1.5) or $1050 per year.
As a retired Fed, I pay ~30% of the cost of my health care policy. I have BCBS basic which costs me ~$100 a month for single person coverage or if I needed family coverage about $300 a month. I would pay this amount whether I was a janitor at the Post Office or a U.S. Senator.
The teachers in NC, to contrast with NJ teachers, pay nothing for 80% self-only coverage and ~$350 a month for coverage with a spouse. For coverage for the entire family, they pay ~$650 a month for 80% coverage... your hospital bill is $100,000.....you cough up $20,000! Their prescription coverage is pretty paltry too. NJ teachers have done pretty well up to this point!
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Originally Posted by nemmert
Someone in South Jersey did that... lower part of Voorhees maybe? He took about a $100k pay cut to around $50k a year to save teacher's jobs.
You must be joking on Voorhees. There is no "lower Voorhees". Most of the superintendants make well over $200 - 300K.
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