Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ah, I believe I got my kid all the way to 18 without once using the term "play date"! When I first heard it, I thought the person was joking.
Good for you! I cringe at "play date". The two terms that I hear all the time are "play date" and "home invasion". All these types of people are so afraid of the always looming "home invasion", despite living in some of the safest towns in the world. I hear all sorts of stories (rarely rooted in fact) about "home invasions" that happened only a few blocks from where each person lives, and they try to one-up each other with that, too... "Oh, there was a HOME INVASION 3 blocks away, and they stole their car, too!" "Oh well near me 2 blocks away was a HOME INVASION and they stabbed the guy!" "Well near my in-laws there was a HOME INVASION by 10 guys in all black with automatic weapons..." I think it's just an excuse for an expensive security system.
I love the aspect of the "play date" that shows it's all about the parents, not the kids. On a play date, the parent goes along, socializes with the other mom, and the kids are supposed to play and keep each other entertained but the moms always interrupt each other to dote on the kid and intervene with how they're playing so they play "right"...
I think that's what kills me about that whole scene. On the surface, it's all about the kids - the SUV or minivan for the kids (safety ), the toys, the playroom, the activities, the academic drive, the sports. But dig a little below the surface and it becomes clear it's about the parents: the playroom is to keep the kids out of their hair; the achievements are points of one-upmanship for the parents, the social commentary is a way of voicing their views that nobody cares about so they reciprocate for each other while barely listening to or considering each other's views; the SUV (not so much the minivan) is really for mom and dad's status symbol (look what I can afford to drive and fill with gas!); the "play dates" are more for the mommies to socialize and show off their parenting skills by intervening and doting constantly while interrupting each others' small talk.
As I said earlier, I don't know if this is conventional "snobbery" but it is kind of snobbish. It's just that it's weird to be snobbish about how awesomely suburban one is...it's the new status symbol, it seems.
It's so obvious how Dutch BC is...Van Riper, Van Dunk, Dunkerhook, Wortendyke, Frelinghuysen, etc... Even names I didn't know were Dutch are Dutch like Sandy Hook from the Dutch "Hoek"... Yes, NJ is steeped in Dutch heritage. Valley Hospital in Ridgewood has all their founders, administrators, etc. in portraits on the walls, most of them are Dutch names. Lots of the "old money" here is Dutch - maybe a link to the alleged snobbery in the area???
My favorite farm all my life till they left was Van Riper's. They had everyone beat, hands down! A remnant is the Dutch style donuts that they used to make and that can still be found in farms like De Piero's - delicious!
Ole Bollen! (I think it translates to Oil Balls, not as appetizing-sounding, but they ARE good.)
I didn't come from the Dutch ones that had money, alas. Most of my ancestors didn't get to Bergen County until the mid-to-late nineteenth century, and they were small farmers or carpenters or worked in the Paterson mills. But going further back the money was there, and most of the wealthier old Dutch landowners owned slaves. As a matter of fact, for a time there was a community of free blacks descended from those slaves in what is now the Dunkerhook section of Saddle River County Park in Paramus. Dunkerhook is a corruption of the Dutch for "Dark Corner". If you go to the park, you'll see a plaque that says it was a slave community, but based on more updated research and the census records, it appears they were not slaves when they lived there, although they probably worked as servants for the wealthy.
The snobbery was definitely alive and well amongst the Dutch--even when I was a kid, there were old people in the church who not only looked down on people who were not Dutch, but my father's mother felt that her son had married beneath him because her family spoke a "better" dialect of Dutch than my mother's family did.
My daughter is now 18, and I have a great picture of her at about 3 or 4 sitting on a huge pumpkin at Van Riper's the last October that it was there. There's still a small family run farm in Wyckoff, called Abma's (Dutch name), that sells produce and homemade baked goods and a little petting zoo, but I think they grow most of their crops up in Sussex County somewhere. They do the hayrides into the pumpkin fields for the kids in the fall right there in Wyckoff, though.
Another interesting name you will hear all over Bergen County is Zabriskie--an early family who came here from The Netherlands. However, it turns out that the Zabriskies were originally Polish, which is what the name sounds like.
Good for you! I cringe at "play date". The two terms that I hear all the time are "play date" and "home invasion". All these types of people are so afraid of the always looming "home invasion", despite living in some of the safest towns in the world. I hear all sorts of stories (rarely rooted in fact) about "home invasions" that happened only a few blocks from where each person lives, and they try to one-up each other with that, too... "Oh, there was a HOME INVASION 3 blocks away, and they stole their car, too!" "Oh well near me 2 blocks away was a HOME INVASION and they stabbed the guy!" "Well near my in-laws there was a HOME INVASION by 10 guys in all black with automatic weapons..." I think it's just an excuse for an expensive security system.
I love the aspect of the "play date" that shows it's all about the parents, not the kids. On a play date, the parent goes along, socializes with the other mom, and the kids are supposed to play and keep each other entertained but the moms always interrupt each other to dote on the kid and intervene with how they're playing so they play "right"...
I think that's what kills me about that whole scene. On the surface, it's all about the kids - the SUV or minivan for the kids (safety ), the toys, the playroom, the activities, the academic drive, the sports. But dig a little below the surface and it becomes clear it's about the parents: the playroom is to keep the kids out of their hair; the achievements are points of one-upmanship for the parents, the social commentary is a way of voicing their views that nobody cares about so they reciprocate for each other while barely listening to or considering each other's views; the SUV (not so much the minivan) is really for mom and dad's status symbol (look what I can afford to drive and fill with gas!); the "play dates" are more for the mommies to socialize and show off their parenting skills by intervening and doting constantly while interrupting each others' small talk.
As I said earlier, I don't know if this is conventional "snobbery" but it is kind of snobbish. It's just that it's weird to be snobbish about how awesomely suburban one is...it's the new status symbol, it seems.
I've noticed "home invasion" a lot, too. Sounds like paranoia that somebody is after their "stuff". They have to protect their stuff, you know!
And don't forget, no one has a TV anymore. You aren't worth anything if you don't have a "home theater".
Playroom! I thought that was just a typical American thing in general. Or that the basement becomes the area for the kids to be send to. My husband also came up with that idea. I immediately helped him out of that dream. In Holland children just play in the living room (ok, houses are a lot smaller there). My daughter plays in the living room too. I don't want her to be skulking in her own den.
Dutch and slaves. Nothing to be proud of. The first slave ship to come to America actually sailed under Dutch flag.
Oliebollen I bake every year with New Years. Typical Dutch tradition. Or a delicious appelflap
Snobbyness rooted in Dutch ancestry.....who would have thought that! *shock*
Gotta agree on the playdate scene. I am sure that word will go out of vogue at some point...hopefully with some sort of culture change too.
Home Invasion is a new one on me though! BergenCountyJohnny, I forgot to applaud you earlier for your humor!
I too am from Dutch roots - but not from NJ - 4th generation and my relatives settled in the midwest, where I grew up (pm me if you want more info!). Mostly, there, the Dutch were farmers and not wealthy, and still are pretty simple people, conservative, church going and really nice. In parts of the midwest, there are pockets of many Dutch people - since it's not as populated as NJ, they still stick together in the rural areas.
Playroom! I thought that was just a typical American thing in general. Or that the basement becomes the area for the kids to be send to. My husband also came up with that idea. I immediately helped him out of that dream. In Holland children just play in the living room (ok, houses are a lot smaller there). My daughter plays in the living room too. I don't want her to be skulking in her own den.
Dutch and slaves. Nothing to be proud of. The first slave ship to come to America actually sailed under Dutch flag.
Oliebollen I bake every year with New Years. Typical Dutch tradition. Or a delicious appelflap
Snobbyness rooted in Dutch ancestry.....who would have thought that! *shock*
You are funny, Snoep! Couldn't rep you again at this time.
Yes, the early Dutch in America were very enterprising folks. If that meant shipping people as cargo, apparently that was fine with some. During the American Revolution the Dutch farmers in NJ and NY weren't too picky about to whom they sold their produce, either--just depended upon who was willing to pay more, the British or the Americans.
Gotta agree on the playdate scene. I am sure that word will go out of vogue at some point...hopefully with some sort of culture change too.
Home Invasion is a new one on me though! BergenCountyJohnny, I forgot to applaud you earlier for your humor!
I too am from Dutch roots - but not from NJ - 4th generation and my relatives settled in the midwest, where I grew up (pm me if you want more info!). Mostly, there, the Dutch were farmers and not wealthy, and still are pretty simple people, conservative, church going and really nice. In parts of the midwest, there are pockets of many Dutch people - since it's not as populated as NJ, they still stick together in the rural areas.
I know there are a lot of Dutch in Iowa and Michigan.
There will always be snobby people in wealthy areas, that is universal. What's good about NJ is that towns are big enough that there isn't one particular group in your neighborhood you need to rely on for a social life. So, even if everyone on your block is a snob, you don't need to deal with them.
What I find is a lot of younger families that are made up of parents who manage to own the house they have with the help they got from their parents who live in the area, but when these people get their homes and start their families they get very proud over being "self-made" and they relish the role of the stereotypical suburbanite. They put their kids in every activity the kid will put up with, spare no cost. They spoil their kids. They wear dockers and polo/golf shirts. The men play golf. The women do play-dates and school functions. They show up at town activities and talk about their kids, their houses, their complaints about the town, their gossip, their vacations, and anything that is stereotypically suburbanite. They do home renovations. They re-do the driveway and landscaping. Their status symbols are who has the nicest minivan or SUV, or who can afford the sports car aside from the SUV and other family car(s). Their status is centered on their kids most often - how many toys the kids have, how many activities the kids do, how well the kids do in sports, dance, academics, etc. They passive-aggressively compete in this manner:
Mom A - "Oh, Ethan just got selected for starter on his little league team, he's their best hitter, too!"
Mom B - "That's WONDERFUL! Way to go Ethan!! Oh I just found out that Caleb can't do little league because his Chinese class conflicts with it and he says to me 'mom, I wanna keep getting straight A's so I can go to Harvard and be a doctor'....isn't that cute!?!?"
Mom A - "Oh, so CUTE! That's WONDERFUL!! Brianna wants to be a nurse one day. She has a big dance recital this Friday, they are doing Swan Lake! Isn't that amazing??!!?!?! They're onlly 8 and 9 years old but they'rd doing complex dance!!!"
Mom B - "Oh WOW! AMAZING! WONDERFUL! I know, I know - Sophia is doing BEETHOVEN at her Violin Recital! Can you imagine?!?!?! BEETHOVEN!!! That's what they play in Lincoln Center and stuff!!!"
Dad A - "Hey Dad B!!! Ya left me with the women! Hey we gonna go golfin tomorrow?"
Dad B - "Can't, I'm takin' the mustang out to Sussex County for Transmission, you wanna go?"
Dad A - "Sure! Hey, if you want, come back with me afterwards and you can finish helping me with the pavers, then we'll watch the game on my Flat-Screen! Mom A has the kids all day anyway, they got recitals and stuff.."
Dad B - "Yeah, and maybe at night if you can go to BestBuys with me, I could use your help with buying a flat-screen. I'm gonna get a BLUE-RAY with it! The wife said I could since I gave up on the Vegas trip with the guys.."
Be ready for that kind of excitement in those towns!
Some people see all this as "snobby" because they don't fit in with that crowd. I don't see it as snobby. I see it as stereotypical and boring, and I see it as kind of an exclusive social circle as people who don't fit the stereotype are excluded from most activities, but I don't find it snobbish and I'm not offended by it. Most of these people are very nice, actually, but they love living the stereotype. Some are even snobbish. Most aren't.
But that's my take on the "wealthier" towns. I've also gotten the impression that the more "old money" towns are less snobbish than the newer money towns, so I think a lot of those "upper-middle-class" towns in Essex, Union, etc. counties that are only newly desirable have a lot more nouveaux riches snobs flitting around. Here in Bergen it's not quite that bad - it's that stereotype that people try to live out.
You should be a comedian, seriously. That was hilarious.
My friend's sister married a man from old money, just outside of Princeton. He's the nicest guy, but she fancies herself above everyone else now. When they went to visit another, retired older sister in the Holiday City retirement community in Manchester, she loudly admonished her children to lock the car doors in front of her sister's house because "we don't know what kind of people live around here."
You know, those old geezers looking to break into their Lexus with a cane and steal the stereo system.
My mother is like that a little, regrettably. I'll never forget when I first moved out of my mother's house last year. I was living up in Edison at the time and she came to visit me and see my place, we went shopping for someone's birthday at Woodbridge Mall and they closed the CVS there so I knew there was another one on Main St. there, we pull up over there after we got out of the mall and she's like "I don't like this neighborhood" all panicy. Come on Mom it's Woodbridge, you used to shop here all the time when we lived in Staten Island to avoid sales tax on clothing. She even admits it and says "yeah I guess I am a little snobby." After going shopping for 15 years now at the ever increasingly prestigious Raceway Mall, which may as well be the Mall at Short Hills now since they closed all the reasonably priced stores, you think Woodbridge is bad? Seriously my mother just doesn't like to be anywhere she isn't familiar with. She can't stand her co-workers who act like those new money low-lives straight out of NYC. She always says she wonders if she would've ended up like that hadn't she lived in Cherry Hill all those years as a teenager. Cherry Hill was just as snobby in the 1970's as Manalapan is now, but there was never a NY influence there obviously so it was a real culture shock for my mother and her family coming from Brooklyn in 1970, but they adapted well to it. People down there I think have a little more class, and I think my mother fits in more with that crowd for those reasons because she's always had class and good manners, never acted like some of those low-lives. She wants to go back now because her parents are getting old.
I used to think that I wanted to live in a "wow" town like Chatham, Summit, etc ... now, I think that if I DO have kids, and DO decide to go suburban, that I'd choose a place with less of a snob factor. I just wouldn't want my kids growing up like that ... I don't think it's advantageous at all for them.
I spent most of my growing up years in Cranford, which I think has a great balance - there are some beautiful homes, great downtown, some people who'd be considered "wealthy", but mostly middle to upper-middle class people who are very down to earth.
I can agree it is very unhealthy to grow up in that type of environment, kids at school envying each other, wishing for what the other has.
I'm not familiar with Cranford, but my uncle lives in Scotch Plains, which is very upscale and they live in a small cape cod, they just bumped the roof out recently after living there for twelve years. My cousin is going away to college next year and, on the subject of old vs new money, I don't think her high school experience has been all that great since she keeps saying she wants to be as far away from here as possible.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
), the toys, the playroom, the activities, the academic drive, the sports. But dig a little below the surface and it becomes clear it's about the parents: the playroom is to keep the kids out of their hair; the achievements are points of one-upmanship for the parents, the social commentary is a way of voicing their views that nobody cares about so they reciprocate for each other while barely listening to or considering each other's views; the SUV (not so much the minivan) is really for mom and dad's status symbol (look what I can afford to drive and fill with gas!); the "play dates" are more for the mommies to socialize and show off their parenting skills by intervening and doting constantly while interrupting each others' small talk.
