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I still stand by my statement that there are more things to life than low property taxes.
That's how I always felt about it, too. It truly is a matter of good outweighing bad, and everyone's good and bad are different. Some people cite being surrounded by other people as a negative, for instance. But not everyone feels that way. Many people feel it's very hustle-bustle and exciting to have people all around them, and that there's a much bigger pool of people to find friends from, and that the many personalities are interesting and stimulating.
That's just one "for instance" but I think it's a decent one as far as being able to see how some people might say "Gotta have it!" and others will say, "Get these people away from me...give me space!"
Obviously a good few people feel the pluses outweigh the taxes, traffic or what have you in the tristate area, or it wouldn't, well, have so many people in it.
Now, Georgia...I've been there...and I thought it was lovely. And I LOVED Atlanta. It wasn't like NYC but not every city has to be NYC for me to love it. There was this outdoor but underground sort of mall...don't know how to explain that...you had to walk down stairs to get to it but it was open-air and it was gorgeous...do they still have that thing? Anyway. I've mentioned Georgia to my husband. His immediate answer? And I do mean immediate. "It's a red state. No." That was it. Period. That was his non-negotiable. It may seem silly but he has associations with that, and with people in general that espouse conservative beliefs, and he just knew, immediately, in his heart of hearts, that no matter what the pluses, he couldn't live full-time in that sort of culture and atmosphere. It's not a bad atmosphere. Some may say it's actually the better atmosphere. Who am I to say? But it isn't his environment. Period. He knows he'd dry up and die there. It's things like that--your one or two or however many non-negotiables that keep people in a certain place or move them to another. And no tax situation, good or bad, will change that.
Honestly, it's a sort of a coup, in a weird way, for NJ to be so controversial, because only the most interesting, bustling and varied areas cause such extremes of reaction. You'll notice that it's in the biggest cities and their surrounding areas that people tend to freak out from both sides. Snoop around citydata and you'll see what I mean. If you scroll down and even before you get to the end of page one, every other post alternates with "This is why THIS AREA SUCKS!" and then "You'd have to be a MORON not to SELL A KIDNEY AND YOUR FIRST BORN JUST TO GET OUT HERE TO LIVE!", well...you know you're near a major U.S. hub, LOL.
On the subject of rebates, I do think rebates in general are dumb. I have never, ever, ever, ever, hmmmmmmmm...let me think...oh yeah...EVER bought a consumer product that came with a rebate. No car, computer, phone, fridge, anything, and never will, period. Rebates in general help the institution or business, not the person. The person sits and waits (perhaps forever...if the business plays its cars right with unreturned phone calls, fine print and "forgotten" paperwork submissions) and at the very least has a much more positive cash flow for the first year while it weeds out the people who will just give up. Obviously a state-regulated/mandated rebate program *should* have to be more aboveboard than this, and probably is, dollar for dollar, than a consumer product company, but I'm with the sentiment above of "If you want to save me money...just don't make me spend it in the first place."
BUT one way or another, SOMETHING is coming back, so it's pennies from heaven. Just grab it and go...it's yours now. I mean what can ya do...no matter where you live, even if taxes are much lower in one area, you'll generally get some sort of Sheister Tax thrown in there somewhere and you'll still be paying...just in a broken up way so you don't get the one bill at the end of the year and go "Oh my GOD." Not downplaying NJ's large property taxes...but the truth is...there is no one place where you're near a cultural epicenter, pay low taxes on a huge house in a very safe neighborhood with great schools that is magically 20 minutes away from an enormous pool of jobs that pay oodles of money. If there were...we'd all be there. (Or I would be...keeping my mouth shut all the way!) There obviously are things about NJ that draw or keep people there...or nobody would be there...period.
That's how I always felt about it, too. It truly is a matter of good outweighing bad, and everyone's good and bad are different. Some people cite being surrounded by other people as a negative, for instance. But not everyone feels that way. Many people feel it's very hustle-bustle and exciting to have people all around them, and that there's a much bigger pool of people to find friends from, and that the many personalities are interesting and stimulating.
That's just one "for instance" but I think it's a decent one as far as being able to see how some people might say "Gotta have it!" and others will say, "Get these people away from me...give me space!"
Obviously a good few people feel the pluses outweigh the taxes, traffic or what have you in the tristate area, or it wouldn't, well, have so many people in it.
Now, Georgia...I've been there...and I thought it was lovely. And I LOVED Atlanta. It wasn't like NYC but not every city has to be NYC for me to love it. There was this outdoor but underground sort of mall...don't know how to explain that...you had to walk down stairs to get to it but it was open-air and it was gorgeous...do they still have that thing? Anyway. I've mentioned Georgia to my husband. His immediate answer? And I do mean immediate. "It's a red state. No." That was it. Period. That was his non-negotiable. It may seem silly but he has associations with that, and with people in general that espouse conservative beliefs, and he just knew, immediately, in his heart of hearts, that no matter what the pluses, he couldn't live full-time in that sort of culture and atmosphere. It's not a bad atmosphere. Some may say it's actually the better atmosphere. Who am I to say? But it isn't his environment. Period. He knows he'd dry up and die there. It's things like that--your one or two or however many non-negotiables that keep people in a certain place or move them to another. And no tax situation, good or bad, will change that.
Honestly, it's a sort of a coup, in a weird way, for NJ to be so controversial, because only the most interesting, bustling and varied areas cause such extremes of reaction. You'll notice that it's in the biggest cities and their surrounding areas that people tend to freak out from both sides. Snoop around citydata and you'll see what I mean. If you scroll down and even before you get to the end of page one, every other post alternates with "This is why THIS AREA SUCKS!" and then "You'd have to be a MORON not to SELL A KIDNEY AND YOUR FIRST BORN JUST TO GET OUT HERE TO LIVE!", well...you know you're near a major U.S. hub, LOL.
On the subject of rebates, I do think rebates in general are dumb. I have never, ever, ever, ever, hmmmmmmmm...let me think...oh yeah...EVER bought a consumer product that came with a rebate. No car, computer, phone, fridge, anything, and never will, period. Rebates in general help the institution or business, not the person. The person sits and waits (perhaps forever...if the business plays its cars right with unreturned phone calls, fine print and "forgotten" paperwork submissions) and at the very least has a much more positive cash flow for the first year while it weeds out the people who will just give up. Obviously a state-regulated/mandated rebate program *should* have to be more aboveboard than this, and probably is, dollar for dollar, than a consumer product company, but I'm with the sentiment above of "If you want to save me money...just don't make me spend it in the first place."
BUT one way or another, SOMETHING is coming back, so it's pennies from heaven. Just grab it and go...it's yours now. I mean what can ya do...no matter where you live, even if taxes are much lower in one area, you'll generally get some sort of Sheister Tax thrown in there somewhere and you'll still be paying...just in a broken up way so you don't get the one bill at the end of the year and go "Oh my GOD." Not downplaying NJ's large property taxes...but the truth is...there is no one place where you're near a cultural epicenter, pay low taxes on a huge house in a very safe neighborhood with great schools that is magically 20 minutes away from an enormous pool of jobs that pay oodles of money. If there were...we'd all be there. (Or I would be...keeping my mouth shut all the way!) There obviously are things about NJ that draw or keep people there...or nobody would be there...period.
Wow! Now that's a well thought-out post! Although I don't agree with some parts of your statement (the purpose of rebates part) , I have to give you some positive rep points for that one. These are the kind of posts that show intelligence without sounding condescending. Thank you!
...and then there are those that enjoy giving the state government their hard earned money. Aren't there better ways to spend it?
*shrug* - my property taxes are a non-issue in my overall financial health, as I'm sure yours are. i like living here, love my town, love the schools, like my job. it's all good.
*shrug* - my property taxes are a non-issue in my overall financial health, as I'm sure yours are. i like living here, love my town, love the schools, like my job. it's all good.
I'm not implying that you can't afford to live in NJ. I'm just surprised that some (on this board) don't see a problem with the way tax hikes have spun out of control in the last decade or so. I also love NJ for many reasons, I'm just really fed up with its politics. There is absolutely NO justification (reasonable justification) for why some areas in NJ have the highest property taxes in the nation.
I'm sure your financial health would be "healthier" if you lived in a less corrupt state. Obviously, you'll never leave, but I'm sure there are times when you question your tax bill. If not, more power to ya'!
I'm not implying that you can't afford to live in NJ. I'm just surprised that some (on this board) don't see a problem with the way tax hikes have spun out of control in the last decade or so. I also love NJ for many reasons, I'm just really fed up with its politics. There is absolutely NO justification (reasonable justification) for why some areas in NJ have the highest property taxes in the nation.
I'm sure your financial health would be "healthier" if you lived in a less corrupt state. Obviously, you'll never leave, but I'm sure there are times when you question your tax bill. If not, more power to ya'!
a couple of things:
there's no denying NJ has the highest taxes in the nation, but there are also MANY places in the state with reasonable rates. some towns are out of control, and I've posted before there are towns I love but would NEVER live because of the outrageous taxes (two being Glen Ridge and Montclair).
i take the whole picture into account when it comes to cost of living, not just property taxes. YES, we have high prop taxes, BUT, there are a lot of things where we aren't taxed to death and salaries compensate for A LOT. our state income tax is lower than a lot of places. ditto things like personal property tax (we don't have it), no tax on clothing and *most* food items. we don't get nickled and dimed to death in the schools (i have friends in many states ,and a lot of them are asked to "donate" about $250/kid and up because of shortfalls in the budget), or at DVM, for instance. our groceries are on the low side. it's just that property taxes are so in your face it's what residents and ex-residents focus on. but all the little things that *aren't* so expensive do add up to balance things. but, does it balance out in the end? well, not completely, but NJ is the 14th state in terms of tax burden -vs- income, NOT the 1st. plus, there's a reason it's expensive here - location, location, location.
everyone has gripes about where they live, yes, even me . however, look at other boards, there are topics that permeate them that you RARELY see on this board, such as:
1) lack of good paying jobs
2) meth epidemic
3) gangs taking over middle class neighborhoods
4) crime (yes we talk about crime, but it's really only focused in the urban, known crime areas)
5) housing crisis (we talk about a few posters having a problem selling, but our housing issue isn't *nearly* as bad as other places)
so, i'm not saying taxes AREN'T a problem, but compared to those 5 items, it all ain't bad. it to me seems shortsighted to just look at this one thing when there is a lot of good around (I'm not saying you personally don't look at the good). NJ is corrupt, no doubt about it. I just choose to focus on the positive, as the negative will eat you alive.
as for me personally? you're right, I won't leave, because I have no reason to. NJ isn't sucking me dry, I like where I am, we have good jobs, I love NYC and the beach, like the vibe in NJ, my family is here and I want my children to grow up around their relatives. it's totally worth a few more bucks in property taxes to have that. maybe we'd be better off financially moving wherever, but I wouldn't be happy. and in the end, isn't that what it's all about? i'm truly happy for those who have found their "home" elsewhere too.
there's no denying NJ has the highest taxes in the nation, but there are also MANY places in the state with reasonable rates. some towns are out of control, and I've posted before there are towns I love but would NEVER live because of the outrageous taxes (two being Glen Ridge and Montclair).
i take the whole picture into account when it comes to cost of living, not just property taxes. YES, we have high prop taxes, BUT, there are a lot of things where we aren't taxed to death and salaries compensate for A LOT. our state income tax is lower than a lot of places. ditto things like personal property tax (we don't have it), no tax on clothing and *most* food items. we don't get nickled and dimed to death in the schools (i have friends in many states ,and a lot of them are asked to "donate" about $250/kid and up because of shortfalls in the budget), or at DVM, for instance. our groceries are on the low side. it's just that property taxes are so in your face it's what residents and ex-residents focus on. but all the little things that *aren't* so expensive do add up to balance things. but, does it balance out in the end? well, not completely, but NJ is the 14th state in terms of tax burden -vs- income, NOT the 1st. plus, there's a reason it's expensive here - location, location, location.
everyone has gripes about where they live, yes, even me . however, look at other boards, there are topics that permeate them that you RARELY see on this board, such as:
1) lack of good paying jobs
2) meth epidemic
3) gangs taking over middle class neighborhoods
4) crime (yes we talk about crime, but it's really only focused in the urban, known crime areas)
5) housing crisis (we talk about a few posters having a problem selling, but our housing issue isn't *nearly* as bad as other places)
so, i'm not saying taxes AREN'T a problem, but compared to those 5 items, it all ain't bad. it to me seems shortsighted to just look at this one thing when there is a lot of good around (I'm not saying you personally don't look at the good). NJ is corrupt, no doubt about it. I just choose to focus on the positive, as the negative will eat you alive.
as for me personally? you're right, I won't leave, because I have no reason to. NJ isn't sucking me dry, I like where I am, we have good jobs, I love NYC and the beach, like the vibe in NJ, my family is here and I want my children to grow up around their relatives. it's totally worth a few more bucks in property taxes to have that. maybe we'd be better off financially moving wherever, but I wouldn't be happy. and in the end, isn't that what it's all about? i'm truly happy for those who have found their "home" elsewhere too.
Makes sense. Kudos to you for that post!
I guess I'm just a tad bitter. So now I'm off to spend my rebate...
My question is are we still getting theproprty tax relief checks for 2008
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Snoop around citydata and you'll see what I mean. If you scroll down and even before you get to the end of page one, every other post alternates with "This is why THIS AREA SUCKS!" and then "You'd have to be a MORON not to SELL A KIDNEY AND YOUR FIRST BORN JUST TO GET OUT HERE TO LIVE!", well...you know you're near a major U.S. hub, LOL.
Aren't there better ways to spend it?
. however, look at other boards, there are topics that permeate them that you RARELY see on this board, such as:
So now I'm off to spend my rebate...
