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money. People in New England are horrible and the housing is expensive. NJ has expensive housing and high taxes plus congestion, but the incredible plus of NYC.
I moved to New England from NJ, where I lived most of my life, and I disagree about the people. We have made fantastic friends, have great neighbors and thankfully are away from NYC. You get more house for the money here versus NJ and a lot less congestion.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny
I'd say it comes down to what you value and want in your family's life as your family grows. Much of that leadership comes from the decisions you and your wife make based on your own preferences which you will try to pass on to your kids.
Obviously there is a weather difference, w/ MA being very harsh in winter, NC being very mild; MA cooler in summer, NC very hot and humid in summer; and NJ is in between both extremes in both seasons, with longer transitions in spring and fall.
There is then the bottom line to what you consider important in life for you and your family. You will get less house and property for your money in NJ and MA than in NC. However, in MA (boston area) you will have access to a great, great city and all that it offers. In NJ you will have the same - in fact, you will have access easily to two great cities (one being the "biggest" internationally in terms of prominence - NYC), plus you will be within 4 hours of Boston, DC, Baltimore and 6 hours of Montreal, Buffalo, Pittsburgh.
In MA you will be near the best skiing in the east; in NC you will be somewhat close to beautiful beaches and warmer water than NJ (for the most part); in NJ you will have great skiing and great beaches much closer to home than in the other states, respectively for each attraction.
NJ is like the great compromise...like a buffet...a little bit of everything at your disposal. NC and MA are more specialized - MA offers a great New England/Northern experience and NC a Southern experience. NJ is Mid-atlantic - historian Frederick Jackson Turner said the Mid-Atlantic region is "the most typically American" region, unlike New England or the South which have less diversity historically and more quirks that distinguish them. I believe that still holds true when comparing the different sections of the East Coast.
So, if you plan to have your family fully take advantage of the area in which you live, beyond the town and county in which you settle, as a regular, routine part of their lives, the NJ will be worth the higher cost for you (and don't forget, much of that higher cost will be offset by a higher salary - but not all of the cost). In NJ we also have the top schools in the nation, but again, it costs taxpayers through higher property taxes. But, we pay a lot, and our services and schools are typically very good.
If, however, you plan to stay much more local with your family, staying at home most of the time, and want a nice big home with bigger property for much less money, then NC might be better for you. Schools aren't so hot, and depending on your town your services will not be as free - I know someone who lives in the Raleigh area and has to take his own garbage or pay for special bags from the town because his taxes don't cover garbage removal. For mountains or beaches, you are looking at about a 4 hour drive, or more. Winters are great and mild, but summers are long, hot, humid, and can be brutal.
MA is kind of in between - you have one great city close-by to take advantage of its offerings, and beyond that lots of beautiful nature in the immediate area; but you're isolated from other major cities (NYC is 4 hours away, and the next big city is Philly, 6 hours away). You won't find a great beach experience (in the typical sense of being able to swim, surf, lie out on the sand, boardwalks, etc. - their beaches are more for fishing, walking, etc. and have more rock than sand). Winters are long and harsh and cold and snowy, but summers are beautiful, rarely too hot and humid, cool in the evenings...
So consider what you want in life for you and your family, and pick accordingly. Each place has its strengths and weaknesses. To try to sum up for you:
MA - great summer/harsh winter; high costs; major city (Boston) but isolated from other major cities; good schools, communities; near mountains, near beaches (but New England beaches, not quite sand/surf/swim beaches)
NJ - balanced 4 seasons, extremes aren't too extreme (south Jersey is actually noticeably milder than North Jersey); major cities nearby (NY and Philly), also near other major cities; great schools, communities; great beaches nearby, beautiful mountains nearby; very high costs in Northern NJ (NYC burbs) but much less expensive in Southern NJ (Philly/AC burbs; actually less expensive than MA would be)
NC - low costs on homes/property; beautiful, mild winters but brutal summers; no major cities although Raleigh and Charlotte are growing and are mid-level cities; lots of rural countryside nearby, but mountains and beaches are a bit far
Actually, I will make a recommendation for NJ - if you prefer the NYC vibe and can deal with the higher costs (don't forget - higher pay, also, but not as proportionately high as the costs) then go with Northern NJ; if you want to save a little, go with Central NJ (which is part of Northern NJ, mostly).
But if you want the bigger home for less money, go with South Jersey over NC. It will cost a bit more, but you will have access to great mountains and skiing in the Poconos, and great beaches on the Jersey Shore, all within 2 hours, easily (even 1 hour, depending where you live). Plus, jobs and opportunities are plentiful - Philly metro area is the 4th biggest metro in the US! Lower taxes, higher than NC but not nearly as high as Northern NJ; plus, you're still close to other major cities (NYC will be within 2, 2.5 hours, as will Baltimore and DC).
Yeah - I'm going with that recommendation - South Jersey if you're cost conscious and bigger home/property is more important to you. South Jersey is a better option than NC, worth a little more cost, and it IS just a little more in cost. You get much more for your money overall, including a milder climate than points further north in NJ.
It all depends where in NC as it is where in NJ.
I came to the Charlotte area from the Philly suburbs of South Jersey. Last summer was less humid than the Philly area.
I'm about 2 hours from the mountains & 3 - 4 hours from beaches.
If you come from where I lived in South Jersey, you are on the southern end of the same planting zone (zone 7), so it's not a big change. The weather is different in different areas of NC, just as in NJ, but it's a much bigger state.
Without giving us locations or really any tangible information it's hard to advise. I'd say NJ or NC, because there's less chance of harsh winters.
What are some things that are important to you? What do you like to do?
For me, I like to have the beach close and be able to go into a big city. Which would favor NJ and MA.
If you want a lot of land for a lower price, then NC has the advantage.
If pay is the same, the money would most likely go further in NC.
For me, I would choose NJ, since I like having the beach, major cities, and mountains all in a day trip distance. Although parts of MA and NC can offer the same/similar things.
You also need to consider what quality of life means for you. One way I consider it is for me living at home in central NJ and commuting to the city vs living in an outer borough. The train will cost around $400+ for a monthly pass (after the fair increases), with around 4 hour commute door to door. So that would be around 20 hours a week commuting. In the outer boroughs/northern new jersey you can split an apartment with roommates and pay $600-$700 in rent, but have a cheaper/shorter commute. It would be easier putting more hours in at the office, or getting more sleep. I find to work a lot better with 8-9 hours of sleep, so to me the higher quality of life would be spending the extra bit to move closer to the city. Others would rather save the extra money and have the longer commute.
Good post. I chose the opposite--moved from North Jersey to the shore area because my lifelong hometown in Bergen County is not affordable to me. The commute is long, but as an avid reader, that is my book time. Quality of life means I can be at the ocean in 10 minutes and have a shot at buying a home (or allowing a bank to buy one for me, lol), an option which would never ever be available to me in Bergen County. Point is that the choices have to be made based on individual priorities. For a long time renting in North Jersey was the priority, because I was a single mom who needed good schools and family nearby for my daughter. Now the priority has changed.
I wouldn't pick MA because it's way too cold and snowy...and you have to listen to people say "wicked" all the time. I like NJ, but if I had to be in north Jersey I probably wouldn't so much.
I wouldn't pick MA because it's way too cold and snowy...and you have to listen to people say "wicked" all the time. I like NJ, but if I had to be in north Jersey I probably wouldn't so much.
I don't understand the greed comments?
I didn't either. Someone who doesn't have a job, evidently, and is bitter about it. Bore no relation whatsoever to the OP's question.
True; however, in an effort to compare apples to apples, I fiigured that since anywhere he'd live in NJ (with a job like the one he's after) he'd be in the burbs of NNJ/NYC or SNJ/Philly, I would compare that to burbs in NC of the biggest cities anywhere there, which would be Raleigh and Charlotte.
The major burbs in NJ of the major cities whose metros we are in are closer to both mountains and beaches than the major burbs of the major cities in NC. Not to mention NYC and Philly are major cities, not smaller, mid-level cities. Our cities in NJ are as big as NC's cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
I came to the Charlotte area from the Philly suburbs of South Jersey. Last summer was less humid than the Philly area.
I find that hard to believe; I'd have to see the factual data. I believe you believe that to be true, but I think you're mistaken. Even if that were the case, it was anomalous; you'd have to admit that Charlotte is always more hot and humid than Southern NJ, with extremely, extremely rare exception. But I don't even believe there ever was such an exception, especially not any time in the past 40, 50 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
I'm about 2 hours from the mountains & 3 - 4 hours from beaches.
Sure, I said as much in my post. In South Jersey, however, he can be 1.5 hours from both mountains and beach. 4 hours to a beach, as is the case for most NC residents in the burbs of Charlotte and Raleigh, is very far. That means 8 hours in the car, so a day trip is difficult. In NJ, it's 3 hours in the car, round trip. It's easy to just hop in the car and go, spur of the moment. Not to mention that a beachgoer from the Philly burbs in South Jersey has every kind of beach destination to choose from, unlike North Carolina beachgoers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
If you come from where I lived in South Jersey, you are on the southern end of the same planting zone (zone 7), so it's not a big change. The weather is different in different areas of NC, just as in NJ, but it's a much bigger state.
The weather differences in NC tend to be from west to east, whereas in NJ it's from north to south. NC is definitely a much bigger state, but it's very isolated from major cities. Atlanta is over 2 hours from NC and Washington is 5 hours from NC; I don't know if any other city is as close as these, but even if they are, that's far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
Without giving us locations or really any tangible information it's hard to advise. I'd say NJ or NC, because there's less chance of harsh winters.
Well, he asked for people's opinions about what they would choose. Some would choose NC for a mild winter, but there are people who prefer the harsher winters of New England as well as their more pleasant summers. The summers in NC are downright brutal.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny
True; however, in an effort to compare apples to apples, I fiigured that since anywhere he'd live in NJ (with a job like the one he's after) he'd be in the burbs of NNJ/NYC or SNJ/Philly, I would compare that to burbs in NC of the biggest cities anywhere there, which would be Raleigh and Charlotte.
The major burbs in NJ of the major cities whose metros we are in are closer to both mountains and beaches than the major burbs of the major cities in NC. Not to mention NYC and Philly are major cities, not smaller, mid-level cities. Our cities in NJ are as big as NC's cities.
I find that hard to believe; I'd have to see the factual data. I believe you believe that to be true, but I think you're mistaken. Even if that were the case, it was anomalous; you'd have to admit that Charlotte is always more hot and humid than Southern NJ, with extremely, extremely rare exception. But I don't even believe there ever was such an exception, especially not any time in the past 40, 50 years.
Sure, I said as much in my post. In South Jersey, however, he can be 1.5 hours from both mountains and beach. 4 hours to a beach, as is the case for most NC residents in the burbs of Charlotte and Raleigh, is very far. That means 8 hours in the car, so a day trip is difficult. In NJ, it's 3 hours in the car, round trip. It's easy to just hop in the car and go, spur of the moment. Not to mention that a beachgoer from the Philly burbs in South Jersey has every kind of beach destination to choose from, unlike North Carolina beachgoers.
The weather differences in NC tend to be from west to east, whereas in NJ it's from north to south. NC is definitely a much bigger state, but it's very isolated from major cities. Atlanta is over 2 hours from NC and Washington is 5 hours from NC; I don't know if any other city is as close as these, but even if they are, that's far.
Well, he asked for people's opinions about what they would choose. Some would choose NC for a mild winter, but there are people who prefer the harsher winters of New England as well as their more pleasant summers. The summers in NC are downright brutal.
I realize the humidity thing is difficult to believe, but it's true, in this area.
I was talking to a clerk in a store last summer. I had a friend with me who thought that I was delusional when I kept saying that it as so much less humid. It turned out that the clerk was from Voorhees & I had come from Cherry Hill. When the conversation turned to weather, she commented that she was loving the lower humidity & my friend said "My God!, that's what she keeps saying!" She & I said that it was noticeably less humid. Strange but true. . .
Keeping in mind that a huge number of people in the Raleigh metro & Charlotte metro areas are from NJ, it really depend on where you are in NJ as to what degree of difference you find here. This is not the deep south. It's more or less the south end of the MidAtlantic. Cross the state line to SC & you have found the deep south. That's a bit weird, but true. In another thread, someone else said that NC is, more or less, South Jersey about 30 years ago. I can vouch for that.
I realize the humidity thing is difficult to believe, but it's true, in this area.
I was talking to a clerk in a store last summer. I had a friend with me who thought that I was delusional when I kept saying that it as so much less humid. It turned out that the clerk was from Voorhees & I had come from Cherry Hill. When the conversation turned to weather, she commented that she was loving the lower humidity & my friend said "My God!, that's what she keeps saying!" She & I said that it was noticeably less humid. Strange but true. . .
Keeping in mind that a huge number of people in the Raleigh metro & Charlotte metro areas are from NJ, it really depend on where you are in NJ as to what degree of difference you find here. This is not the deep south. It's more or less the south end of the MidAtlantic. Cross the state line to SC & you have found the deep south. That's a bit weird, but true. In another thread, someone else said that NC is, more or less, South Jersey about 30 years ago. I can vouch for that.
Sorry, I still don't buy it. I've spent a lot of time working in Charlotte and Raleigh as well as in Ben Salem, PA and Cherry Hill, ,NJ and the summers are far more brutal in NC, in both Raleigh and Charlotte. Even Richmond, VA, where I go for work very often, is ridiculously hotter and more brutally humid than South Jersey.
I think you have gotten used to it there and are thinking it's not so bad and not worse than South Jersey, but it is. It's hotter and more humid in those brutal summer months.
Also, it's not the MidAtlantic; Virginia can be considered MidAtlantic, but even Virginians prefer to say they're the "south". NC may not be the deep south, but it's definitely the south and not Mid-Atlantic:
Sorry, I still don't buy it. I've spent a lot of time working in Charlotte and Raleigh as well as in Ben Salem, PA and Cherry Hill, ,NJ and the summers are far more brutal in NC, in both Raleigh and Charlotte. Even Richmond, VA, where I go for work very often, is ridiculously hotter and more brutally humid than South Jersey.
I think you have gotten used to it there and are thinking it's not so bad and not worse than South Jersey, but it is. It's hotter and more humid in those brutal summer months.
According to your own data above, the difference between the two cities is only 4 degrees and around 5% in humidity in the summer months, and somehow that qualifies as "ridiculously hotter and more brutally humid than South Jersey"? Exaggerate much???
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Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny
Sorry, I still don't buy it. I've spent a lot of time working in Charlotte and Raleigh as well as in Ben Salem, PA and Cherry Hill, ,NJ and the summers are far more brutal in NC, in both Raleigh and Charlotte. Even Richmond, VA, where I go for work very often, is ridiculously hotter and more brutally humid than South Jersey.
I think you have gotten used to it there and are thinking it's not so bad and not worse than South Jersey, but it is. It's hotter and more humid in those brutal summer months.
Also, it's not the MidAtlantic; Virginia can be considered MidAtlantic, but even Virginians prefer to say they're the "south". NC may not be the deep south, but it's definitely the south and not Mid-Atlantic:
I went to school when geography was still taught in elementary school, as a separate class & NJ, PA, DE, MD, & VA were considered the MidAtlantic. NC & NY were taught to be sometimes considered to be in the MidAtlantic.
NC skews MidAtlantic. Cripes, I've run into people from Deep-South Jersey who insist that they live in the South, since they are south of the Mason-Dixon Line. It's all relative.
I've talked with native North Carolinians who have family in the SW area of NJ & they have commented on how surprised they were at the awful humidity in South Jersey. It just depends on where you are & what the weather conditions are when you're there.
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