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School Consultants..........I was actually shocked to see how many "consultants" there are in schools making 100,000+ per year. What was interesting was many of these same consultant laided schools are the ones that teachers picketed and shouted the loudest about paying 1.5 percent of their salary towards medical benefits. Datauniverse.com eye opening reading
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by crv1010
RE:I'm dumbfounded by the complete lack of respect for teaching that the public and Christie is showing.
Its not a lack of respect its an acknowledgment of the fact that school taxes make up about 75% of peoples real estate taxes & teachers salaries and benefits make up a lions share of the districts expenses.People now realize that you guys only work about 160 days a year (205 days off per year) after all contractual excusals, get great salaries and top of the line medical, dental, life insurance, health & welfare union payments etc etc. Plus you only teach for about 3 hrs & 40 minutes per day!
Hmmmm............. Funny thing about this, it's what Christie says is the case, but isn't true.
My sister & her husband both teach in an average South Jersey district. They are contracted to be present for 190 days. Christmas & spring vacations are unpaid, as is the summer. The only insurance that they have is health insurance, for which they pay 4% of their salaries, which, added together, do not equal the salary that Christie quoted in his budget address.
My sister is at school by 7 am to make phone calls & get things ready, then teaches when the kids show up about 8:30, with no break, because her lunch coincides with the kids' who are special ed & many need assistance to eat.
They also get to spend hundreds of hours every school year customising "No child left behind" tests, unpaid, in the evening, because the state Dept. of Education mandates it.
They've been doing this for 35 years, but both will leave by the end of the current contract, which was not their plan.
Hmmmm............. Funny thing about this, it's what Christie says is the case, but isn't true.
My sister & her husband both teach in an average South Jersey district. They are contracted to be present for 190 days. Christmas & spring vacations are unpaid, as is the summer. The only insurance that they have is health insurance, for which they pay 4% of their salaries, which, added together, do not equal the salary that Christie quoted in his budget
address. Most School District Contracts mandate 182 days per year BUT from that amount deduct sick leave, personal leave days, emergency days, some districts give excusals for illnesses in the teachers family, snow days etc SO...in fact teachers actually show up to work about 160 times per year or get 205 days off per year. They get a very nice salary for part time work. You want them to get paid extra for not working X'Mas Spring Vacations & Summer?I'm sure taxpayers would love that one! I don't buy that you...I mean your sister & her husband only get health insurance. Most districts provide generous dental, perscription, eyeglass & life insurance if not directly then via a lump sum payment from the District (taxpayers) to their union.
My sister is at school by 7 am to make phone calls & get things ready, then teaches when the kids show up about 8:30, with no break, because her lunch coincides with the kids' who are special ed & many need assistance to eat. Who's your sister calling at 7AM and what does she have to get ready? Lesson plans once made up are utilized year in year out. Most HS teachers are in front of a classroom for 3 hrs and 40 minutes leaving about 4 hrs and 20 for them to "get things ready" have a nice leisurely lunch and take care of personal matters. Trust me teachers are not doing any heavy lifting what-so-ever! Oh and lets not forget all those clubs, sports teams, summer rec etc etc that teachers run...they get paid extra! Nothing a teacher does is simply" for the children"!
They also get to spend hundreds of hours every school year customising "No child left behind" tests, unpaid, in the evening, because the state Dept. of Education mandates it. Give me a break. They have 4 hrs & 20 minutes free every day they show up to work thats about 700 hrs per year! Taxpayers are on to you...I mean your sister & brother in law!
They've been doing this for 35 years, but both will leave by the end of the current contract, which was not their plan.
Yes & taxpayers will be paying for their pension & health benefits (including family) for years to come!
CRV, you are a victim of dead reckoning. You drink Christie's Kool-Aid and you don't know where it comes from. Worried about your tax dollars? Know that Chris Christie is the 4th highest paid governor in the US. Is he offering to "give back" or sacrifice? he has made it clear that he does not intend to and skirts any attempt at the conversation. NJGOAT is 100% right. People in NJ do not want to give up their own little town identities to consolidate. Blaming teachers for NJ's tax problems is like blaming Iraq on 911. Teachers have less or average time off than anyone in any industry. The good ones rarely take off and the better ones stay til 5 most nights. None of us will ever get rich in education. You want to argue merit pay? Lets pay a teacher in Springfield, NJ more beacuse those kids attend more 4 years colleges ( 2 parent households, high motivation for learning, stable family units ) and at the same time penalize a teacher in Camden because there is a high drop-ourt rate ( 1 parent household, dysfunction, drugs, poor health, crime ). This stuff you guys call "merit pay" is called what we lack today: "parental responsibility"= you made em'; YOU raise them right.
Without the teachers we have, I assure you NJ would be a sorry state. Whoever cited the smaller districts in Florida, I can assure you that most parents take that tax savings and send their kids to private schools so they get to see them every night, alive.
Incidently, I wonder what the answer would be to this question: "Governor Christie. If I as an educator agree to your plan and all it's pay freezes, etc AND at the end of your 3rd year in office fail to realize a 15% REDUCTION in my Nj property taxes, would you abdicate office and promise not to run for a second term?"
I just wonder...
Last edited by GraysFerryB4; 05-05-2010 at 12:46 PM..
Reason: addition
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by crv1010
Originally Posted by southbound_295 Hmmmm............. Funny thing about this, it's what Christie says is the case, but isn't true.
My sister & her husband both teach in an average South Jersey district. They are contracted to be present for 190 days. Christmas & spring vacations are unpaid, as is the summer. The only insurance that they have is health insurance, for which they pay 4% of their salaries, which, added together, do not equal the salary that Christie quoted in his budget address. Most School District Contracts mandate 182 days per year BUT from that amount deduct sick leave, personal leave days, emergency days, some districts give excusals for illnesses in the teachers family, snow days etc SO...in fact teachers actually show up to work about 160 times per year or get 205 days off per year. They get a very nice salary for part time work. You want them to get paid extra for not working X'Mas Spring Vacations & Summer?I'm sure taxpayers would love that one! I don't buy that you...I mean your sister & her husband only get health insurance. Most districts provide generous dental, perscription, eyeglass & life insurance if not directly then via a lump sum payment from the District (taxpayers) to their union.
My sister is at school by 7 am to make phone calls & get things ready, then teaches when the kids show up about 8:30, with no break, because her lunch coincides with the kids' who are special ed & many need assistance to eat. Who's your sister calling at 7AM and what does she have to get ready? Lesson plans once made up are utilized year in year out. Most HS teachers are in front of a classroom for 3 hrs and 40 minutes leaving about 4 hrs and 20 for them to "get things ready" have a nice leisurely lunch and take care of personal matters. Trust me teachers are not doing any heavy lifting what-so-ever! Oh and lets not forget all those clubs, sports teams, summer rec etc etc that teachers run...they get paid extra! Nothing a teacher does is simply" for the children"!
They also get to spend hundreds of hours every school year customising "No child left behind" tests, unpaid, in the evening, because the state Dept. of Education mandates it. Give me a break. They have 4 hrs & 20 minutes free every day they show up to work thats about 700 hrs per year! Taxpayers are on to you...I mean your sister & brother in law!
Yes & taxpayers will be paying for their pension & health benefits (including family) for years to come!
My sister is calling parents & district people. My sister & brother-in-law have been chaperoning student for no additional pay, for special olympics for 35 years. I told the truth, & you believe a lie. That's it.
Teachers have less or average time off than anyone in any industry. The good ones rarely take off and the better ones stay til 5 most nights.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was in school, the bell rang at 3:00pm. By 3:15 pm, 90% of the teachers were LONG gone.
Give me a break with this B.S.
RE:I'm dumbfounded by the complete lack of respect for teaching that the public and Christie is showing.
Its not a lack of respect its an acknowledgment of the fact that school taxes make up about 75% of peoples real estate taxes & teachers salaries and benefits make up a lions share of the districts expenses.People now realize that you guys only work about 160 days a year (205 days off per year) after all contractual excusals, get great salaries and top of the line medical, dental, life insurance, health & welfare union payments etc etc. Plus you only teach for about 3 hrs & 40 minutes per day!
This has been pointed our for the falsehood that it is and yet you still continue to say it. Shame on you.
1. Students have to be in school for 182 days a year not teachers!!! We have at least 10+ CONTRACTUAL days for staff days, professional development, etc. Even if you subtract the 5 sick days and 2 personal that does not =160 days a year.
2. What teacher works less than 4 hours? I teach four 1 1/2 hr periods, 45 mins of lunch duty and another 15 of parking lot duty every single day. Shall I do the math for you? That is 7 hours a day not including any grading or prep. Teachers who do get a prep period get 45 mins. So even that is about 6:30 not counting any grading or prep.
3. Great salaries? I will whole heartedly agree they are consistent but since when does $49k with a MS and 5+ years of experience = GREAT?
4. First I ALREADY pay towards my health/dental insurance which I can guarantee you is not "top of the line"
5."Welfare union payments", what does that even mean? If you mean association dues we pay for that ourselves not as a benefit.
6. I GET NO LIFE INSURANCE AS PART OF MY BENEFITS. Do you just make stuff up?
CRV, you are a victim of dead reckoning. You drink Christie's Kool-Aid and you don't know where it comes from. Worried about your tax dollars? Know that Chris Christie is the 4th highest paid governor in the US. Is he offering to "give back" or sacrifice?
What percentage of your tax dollars go towards the governor's salary ?
Quote:
People in NJ do not want to give up their own little town identities to consolidate.
True but not a big part of the problem. Some towns with outrageously high property taxes are quite large (e.g. West Orange is one of the larger towns and has among the most outrageous property taxes). Some districts with completely out of control spending are also among the larger ones (e.g. Newark)
Quote:
Blaming teachers for NJ's tax problems is like blaming Iraq on 911.
This appeals to a false dichotomy that either the teachers are "to blame", or there is no need to make substantial cuts in education spending.
The issue is not whether teachers are "to blame". This is a red herring.
Quote:
You want to argue merit pay? Lets pay a teacher in Springfield, NJ more beacuse those kids attend more 4 years colleges ( 2 parent households, high motivation for learning, stable family units ) and at the same time penalize a teacher in Camden because there is a high drop-ourt rate ( 1 parent household, dysfunction, drugs, poor health, crime ).
"Merit pay" doesn't mean "pay teachers who work for affluent districts more money". Plenty of ways to introduce merit pay that do not confuse teaching effectiveness with the students' socioeconomic status.
Quote:
This stuff you guys call "merit pay" is called what we lack today: "parental responsibility"= you made em'; YOU raise them right.
But the teachers unions aren't arguing for this. They are arguing for throwing more and more money at the districts with deadbeat parents (and hence mediocre outcomes)
Quote:
If I as an educator agree to your plan and all it's pay freezes, etc
Hmmmm............. Funny thing about this, it's what Christie says is the case, but isn't true.
My sister & her husband both teach in an average South Jersey district. They are contracted to be present for 190 days. Christmas & spring vacations are unpaid, as is the summer.
If you quote their salary on an annual basis, and they are able to take those summer and spring vacations without getting docked, that is a paid vacation. It's only unpaid if they see a reduction from their quoted salary when they take those days. The fact that their annual salary may be paid in 9 installments instead of 12 does not make the vacation periods that coincide with the months where installments are not made "unpaid".
Quote:
The only insurance that they have is health insurance, for which they pay 4% of their salaries, which, added together, do not equal the salary that Christie quoted in his budget address.
Some teachers are paid considerably more than others, and the system seems somewhat arbitrary. Not all teachers have outrageously high salaries, but there are some districts that are very top-heavy.
In many cases, especially with retirement packages, the teachers union have been much more effective as advocates for the teachers, than the towns (often ill informed and incompetent) have for local tax payers). The result is often deals that are very bad for tax payers.
The agenda here is not one of retribution against the teachers, it's that the tax payers are starting to feel the pain.
Quote:
They've been doing this for 35 years, but both will leave by the end of the current contract, which was not their plan.
I take it they're leaving voluntarily ? (rare that someone with this many years would be laid off). If no-one in the industry so much as contemplates retirement or a career change, that's perhaps a sign that it may be time for some belt-tightening.
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