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The problem is these fatcat, lazy teachers. They work 100 days a year, but get paid for 365 days a year. Most of them are sucking down a $100K+ salary, plus CADILLAC benefits, the best health, dental, vision, life insurances plus 401k match to 10% PLUS free breakfast and lunch! Then after they work for 15 years they have the option to retire with a $100K pension, but few do, because if they work another 5 years they can retire with a $200K/yr pension (PLUS cadillac benefits for life). then after they "retire" they go back and work another five years as an overpaid "consultant" for $300k+.
They are driving NJ into the poor house, along with the kids of irresponsible welfare parents who get $50 a day in free meals (including weekends and holidays - the schools deliver the meals at a cost of $20 per student), and NJ Transit which has big trains and buses that suck down more gas than a car but people who are lazy and cheap don't buy a car because usually they are trashy poor people.
Christie is doing the right thing going after the 3 main culprits of money-wasting in the state. It's time to give the wealthy their tax cuts that they deserve so that they can then pass out money to everyone else like they did when Whitman was governess. I remember back during Whitman's time, wealthy people would drive down my street and come to the front door of every house and hand out 100's, saying it was all the extra money they got from tax breaks. Then I would buy things with it to make the economy run. I can't understand how people can be against what Christie is doing, they must be nuts!
The problem is these fatcat, lazy teachers. They work 100 days a year, but get paid for 365 days a year. Most of them are sucking down a $100K+ salary, plus CADILLAC benefits, the best health, dental, vision, life insurances plus 401k match to 10% PLUS free breakfast and lunch! Then after they work for 15 years they have the option to retire with a $100K pension, but few do, because if they work another 5 years they can retire with a $200K/yr pension (PLUS cadillac benefits for life). then after they "retire" they go back and work another five years as an overpaid "consultant" for $300k+.
They are driving NJ into the poor house, along with the kids of irresponsible welfare parents who get $50 a day in free meals (including weekends and holidays - the schools deliver the meals at a cost of $20 per student), and NJ Transit which has big trains and buses that suck down more gas than a car but people who are lazy and cheap don't buy a car because usually they are trashy poor people.
Christie is doing the right thing going after the 3 main culprits of money-wasting in the state. It's time to give the wealthy their tax cuts that they deserve so that they can then pass out money to everyone else like they did when Whitman was governess. I remember back during Whitman's time, wealthy people would drive down my street and come to the front door of every house and hand out 100's, saying it was all the extra money they got from tax breaks. Then I would buy things with it to make the economy run. I can't understand how people can be against what Christie is doing, they must be nuts!
The "jonathan swift-ness" was much more obvious this time.
The "jonathan swift-ness" was much more obvious this time.
lol... I realized afterwards that I forgot to mention that the day a teacher is hired his job is guaranteed by the union, and he can't be laid off or fired no matter how bad a teacher he is or what he does wrong... The myths get to be astounding after a while...
I would be completely fine with a program that brings salaries in line with private industry (obviously docking for the 20 some odd day difference) and brings the benefits inline as well. I do not know whether it would save money for the tax payer or not but I really hope someone does the actual math.
Since the unemployment rate for private industry is so high, people being laid off are being hired back as contractors or consultants. This means, no benefits. No sick time, no personal time, no vacation time, no tuition assistance, no health benefits and 20% less salary.
If teachers want the same salaries and therefore the same benefits as industry, they shouldn't have tenure to protect them from layoffs or maybe they should just be contractors like industry.
You maybe right or may not but since that doesnt happen anywhere that I know of, we have no way of proving it. That being said, what is a PE teacher worth? How do you determine?
Their worth is where the supply and demand curve intersect. Problem is, when the buyer is government and the worker is represented by a union, you don't have good supply or demand curves.
If you have price sensitive employees and employers, you can increase pay until you are offering enough to fill the position (and/or reduce until it's hard to fill the position) at a cost acceptable to the employers, in a way that meets the buyers expectations.
The problem is, governments aren't very price sensitive, and union representation blunts price sensitivity of employees (among other things, by obscuring individual differences which would otherwise be a source of variation in compensation)
So the conclusion is, to pay everyone what they are worth, you need all players concerned to be price sensitive and union representation is one obstacle to that.
I work 200 days a year, slightly MORE hours a day. Private sector chemists work about 220. Dock me 20 days pay, or 1/12 the salary. Sound good?
The problem is, you actually think this is true. You do not even come CLOSE to working the hours many work in the private sector. The first 10 years I was working for fortune 500 companies I was in at 7 and never left before 6:30. Often worked weekends and don't forget the "unpaid" hours spent traveling to meetings and hanging around airports etc. Fast forward to today and it's even worse. People doing the job of two people because of layoffs. Constant Blackberry / email contact out of hours.
No tenure for us. Do a bad job and you're out. What happens if you do a bad job? You get written up?
And what are you saying? Sometimes you stay till 5pm (gasp - the horror). Or have to go early to make phone calls? How terrible.
Oh and also give me a break about your salary. You knew that going in. Your benefits, huge vacations are a part of your salary. Hmmm we get 2 weeks of vacation. And often don't even use that. 3 sick days - but don't try to use them all or people will talk about how "undedicated" you are.
Oh and when I first started out in business - right out of college - I made 21k a year. In New York.
The problem is, you actually think this is true. You do not even come CLOSE to working the hours many work in the private sector. The first 10 years I was working for fortune 500 companies I was in at 7 and never left before 6:30. Often worked weekends and don't forget the "unpaid" hours spent traveling to meetings and hanging around airports etc. Fast forward to today and it's even worse. People doing the job of two people because of layoffs. Constant Blackberry / email contact out of hours.
No tenure for us. Do a bad job and you're out. What happens if you do a bad job? You get written up?
And what are you saying? Sometimes you stay till 5pm (gasp - the horror). Or have to go early to make phone calls? How terrible.
Oh and also give me a break about your salary. You knew that going in. Your benefits, huge vacations are a part of your salary. Hmmm we get 2 weeks of vacation. And often don't even use that. 3 sick days - but don't try to use them all or people will talk about how "undedicated" you are.
Oh and when I first started out in business - right out of college - I made 21k a year. In New York.
so everyone should have to emulate this? live to work instead of work to live? 2 weeks vacation with a corporation? 3 sick days ? no corp I know is that crappy (except mine, but I'm a different story), LOL. In my corporate life, it was 5+ weeks and unlimited sick days. Starting off at 22 it was 3+ weeks plus unlimited sick days, full paid benefits, very generous 401K and pension. You picked the wrong company!
I look at my private sector experience a lot different than you - sure i traveled (A LOT - probably more than you), but I got airline points, hotel points which allowed me to travel the world FREE, dined in fine restaurants, saw the country, made friends and had an AWESOME time - way better time than sitting in a classroom full of snot nosed brats. I worked long hours, traveled on Sunday to be there Monday AM, but you know what? I KNEW THAT GOING IN.
I lived through nepotism, favoritism, layoffs, crappy raises, HUGE raises, crappy bonuses, HUGE bonuses, working weekends, long hours (in fact I need to leave Sunday for a business trip on Mother's Day) - but again...I SIGNED UP FOR THIS.
On one hand, I hear the private section is what we should be emulating for everyone because it's "fair" (which makes me LOLOLOLOLOL). Then I read posts like yours that say we should emulate the private sector because you busted your a** and everyone else should? I'm confused.
Listen - I've got no beef with teachers paying for benefit and reworking tenure, but for God's sakes, can we stop the "I worked 168 hours a week and have 3 hours a vaca a year for $10K a year so you should too".
so everyone should have to emulate this? live to work instead of work to live? 2 weeks vacation with a corporation? 3 sick days ? no corp I know is that crappy (except mine, but I'm a different story), LOL. In my corporate life, it was 5+ weeks and unlimited sick days. Starting off at 22 it was 3+ weeks plus unlimited sick days, full paid benefits, very generous 401K and pension. You picked the wrong company!
But that's not reality anymore- it may have been 20 years ago when you started in corporate america, but today it's not. Today's starting positions are mostly 2 weeks vacation, maybe 5 sick/personal days, a fairly substantial contribution to benefits, and lower 401k contributions/matches with longer vesting periods. By comparison, the teachers still have the same no/little contribution to benefits, retirement programs, etc. that they've had for years while everyone else is seeing changes in their programs.
Don't get me wrong- you couldn't pay enough to sit in a classroom with 20+ kids all day- I do it one night a week with college students and wonder if I'm out of my mind sometimes. But at the same time, if the work is something they enjoy, they don't have it all that bad other than the salary being on the low side.
But that's not reality anymore- it may have been 20 years ago when you started in corporate america, but today it's not. Today's starting positions are mostly 2 weeks vacation, maybe 5 sick/personal days, a fairly substantial contribution to benefits, and lower 401k contributions/matches with longer vesting periods. By comparison, the teachers still have the same no/little contribution to benefits, retirement programs, etc. that they've had for years while everyone else is seeing changes in their programs.
Don't get me wrong- you couldn't pay enough to sit in a classroom with 20+ kids all day- I do it one night a week with college students and wonder if I'm out of my mind sometimes. But at the same time, if the work is something they enjoy, they don't have it all that bad other than the salary being on the low side.
hey, easy with the timeframe there brutha! LOL
at the company i started with - today it's still 3+ weeks, unlimited sick, same 401K, singles pay no health premiums (but deductible is $?K - I don't know).
i just get confused when i see posts about how *fair* corporate america is so everyone should emulate it, but then I see how people complain how they work so many hours in the private sector (and btw - i have friends in private sector who are non exempt so they get time and a half for OT! let's not let that little cat out of the bag!) - which is it - is it fair or is corporate america a slave driver - and if it's the latter, why do people put up with it?
i also get tired about endless comparisions - bottom line, give teachers (AND ADMINISTRATORS since they seem to be forgotten in this war) a fair compensation package while not breaking the backs of the tax payers (and this goes for all public sector jobs), but a lot of people won't be happy until teachers are making (and I won't exaggerate this time ) about $30K a year and pay $4-5K a year for their benefits.
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live to work instead of work to live? 2 weeks vacation with a corporation? 3 sick days ? no corp I know is that crappy (except mine, but I'm a different story), LOL. In my corporate life, it was 5+ weeks and unlimited sick days. Starting off at 22 it was 3+ weeks plus unlimited sick days, full paid benefits, very generous 401K and pension. You picked the wrong company! 
) about $30K a year and pay $4-5K a year for their benefits.
