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Old 05-12-2010, 11:14 AM
 
607 posts, read 957,730 times
Reputation: 520

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The biggest problem with these debates here and elsewhere is that there is an all or none mentality on both sides - it's either 100% or 0%

ALL teachers care about themselves
ALL people who criticize teachers regret their own job choices
NO teachers could handle a 'real job' (whatever that means)
NO 'private sector' workers could handle being a teacher

and so on....

Doesn't seem to serve any sort of positive purpose to paint either side with an all-encompassing brush
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:55 AM
 
631 posts, read 719,827 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo2009 View Post
Point of all this is..the teachers union always say its for the KIDS..and I know damm well they don't give a damm about kids!

The union is not the ones who teach..but are the ones who drive around in BMW's from union dues, thats all they care about the union dues!

Funny, I bet if you had kids in the school system right now you would change your tune.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,510 posts, read 3,974,811 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by crv1010 View Post
RE:.the teachers union always say its for the KIDS.


"Its for the teachers" pure and simple. A teacher does nothing for the kids it all about their pockets and how much money and benefits they could squeeze out of taxpayers for a part time job!


Your hopeless.......
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:52 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
Reputation: 14622
I don't think (and I've repeatedly stated) that teachers are the problem. Their union and the local administrations and schools boards are.

I think the issue that people have with teachers are tenure and the fact that there isn't a merit based system. I have yet to see anyone propose a workable plan to rate a teachers performance, but if one was created it would help to alleviate a lot of the angst.

It seems that some people think all teachers barely show up for work and collect $80k salaries and just punch the clock until they retire. Others seem to think that teachers toil for endless hours for horrible pay and bear the brunt of everything. Somewhere in the middle is the truth, but both extremes exist. Hence, why a viable performance oriented pay system could benefit all.

We took our kids to Storybook Land for Mother's Day and in the one part they have a recreation of an old one room school house. It's right next to the sheep pen. Up on the wall they have the "List of Teachers Responsibilities for 1867". It is quite a humorous read in light of all the current debate. Some of them were 1800's era rules regarding dating and what would happen if a woman teacher got married, etc. However, two of them stuck out to me:

1. A teacher will recieve a .25 cent per week raise upon completing 5 years of service with no blemish on their record provided the school board deems it affordable and deserved.

2. A teacher should set aside a portion of their pay weekly for use in their later years so as not to become a burden to the greater society.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
297 posts, read 519,746 times
Reputation: 384
I will reply to the "myths" using my personal experience.

Quote:
1) Teachers show up for work 180 times per school year.
This is pretty much true. I had two teachers who had been there for like 30+ years who took off 2x a week. They both resigned/retired before the year was over.

Quote:
2) Teachers teach for 7 hrs per day and get an hour lunch
The teachers at my school teach about 4-5 periods. Each period is 45 minutes long so 3-4 hours are spent teaching/

Quote:
3) Teachers take work home.
They have like 4 periods to grade stuff in school so I'm sure a lot of gets done at work.

Quote:
4) Teachers volunteer their time for after school clubs & sports teams.
I've had clubs where a teacher was forced to be the adviser. If your boss, the principal or BOE, says you are running this club, then you are going to do what they say.

Quote:
5) Teachers make up new lesson plans every new school year
HAHA NO. 80% the assignments I receive I can find on Google. And not from those learn2teach.com websites but copied from some professor in Kansas's website.

Quote:
6) Teachers are underpaid.
You can see all of the salaries online. The average salary in the U.S. is like 40-50k and all the teachers in my school are paid above 50k unless you're in your first year.

Quote:
7) Teachers & their families do not get taxpayer funded medical, dental, prescription,eyeglass & life insurance
I'm pretty sure they get taxpayed funded medical insurance; not sure about the others.

Quote:
8) Teachers really don't get 205 days off per year and if they did, they're actually doing things for the children while not actually at school
I know teachers who work for summer camps so they're still doing stuff for the kids. And I'm sure some tutor. But you can't say that they all are doing something kid related during their vacation.

Quote:
9) Teachers don't get sick days, emergency days, personal days, snow days etc etc
HAHA. Of course they do. Like any other job.

Quote:
10) Teachers don't get gifts (cash or otherwise) from their students.
I wasn't one of those kids but I've seen kids give teachers gifts for the holidays or the end of the year. That was more common in elementary school though.
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:48 PM
 
607 posts, read 957,730 times
Reputation: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler92 View Post
But you can't say that they all are doing....
Just pulled a small snippet from your post to make a point - this line could be used for pretty much every argument being bandied about here.

Yet people will stay say that "they all are doing..."
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
1,346 posts, read 3,074,674 times
Reputation: 2341
Quote:
Originally Posted by crv1010 View Post
RE:.the teachers union always say its for the KIDS.


"Its for the teachers" pure and simple. A teacher does nothing for the kids it all about their pockets and how much money and benefits they could squeeze out of taxpayers for a part time job!
So go back to school and become a teacher if it's such a great gig. I will never understand this attitude...
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:17 AM
 
160 posts, read 375,397 times
Reputation: 159
Your forgot big lie #11...The school budget cuts will affect class sizes and the availability of nutritious breakfast and lunch meals!

Total BS! Cut back on the landscaping, designer soccer and band uniforms, and bring a PB&J sandwich like we all did. Stop spending your foodstamps on crap food and but some much less expensive fruits and vegetables.
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:27 PM
 
1,931 posts, read 3,412,618 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boardwalk 08755 View Post
Your forgot big lie #11...The school budget cuts will affect class sizes and the availability of nutritious breakfast and lunch meals!

Total BS! Cut back on the landscaping, designer soccer and band uniforms, and bring a PB&J sandwich like we all did. Stop spending your foodstamps on crap food and but some much less expensive fruits and vegetables.

Let me guess the teachers and kids share the blame for this one? Do you understand that we have a group of parents in this country who could honestly care less about being responsible. Tell them until you are blue in the face and they just dont care. Who suffers...the children first and foremost and in a way teachers suffer because they are labeled as "failing" because children from these parents are at a huge educational disadvantage. Of course blaming teachers for these kids failures is the easy thing to do. Blaming parents would not be PC so most politicians dont even approach the subject.
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:29 PM
 
53 posts, read 259,417 times
Reputation: 31
Please dont feed the trolls
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