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Old 05-22-2010, 05:22 PM
 
70 posts, read 259,278 times
Reputation: 49

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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckleberry3911948 View Post
it is so hard for me to understand why americans hate well paid civil servants.
American labor is anti labor.
+1
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,754 posts, read 6,083,444 times
Reputation: 4669
Teachers have been riding the gravy train for a long time now: great pay and superb government benefits for only 9 months work per year--well, actually about 8 if you count-up all the holidays they get off. Also, they don't even need more than a bachelor's degree, and it doesn't even have to be in Education in some states. What other job offers good pay and killer bennies for a profession whose clients (students) are in session only 180 days a year?
Times are tough, many of us have to tighten our belts. Why do these teachers think they are some sort of sacred cows who should be spared from sacrificing a bit like many others are?
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:04 AM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,356,525 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ07035 View Post
The biggest problem with these debates here and elsewhere is that there is an all or none mentality on both sides - it's either 100% or 0%

ALL teachers care about themselves
ALL people who criticize teachers regret their own job choices
NO teachers could handle a 'real job' (whatever that means)
NO 'private sector' workers could handle being a teacher

and so on....

Doesn't seem to serve any sort of positive purpose to paint either side with an all-encompassing brush
I just don't understand why it's "the teachers", and not "the stockbrokers", or "the banks". Why is this economic meltdown being served upon those who had/have the least involvement ... and those who actually SERVE the community?

Why are we giving TRILLIONs of dollars to rich wall-street types, and then trying to recoup those sums of money from middle-class WORKERS, who themselves, pay taxes (and DON't send our jobs overseas).

I fear for our kids, too ... who are going to have nothing left, because of the greed of the U.S. Upper Class. And I fear for the solvency of our republic once the rich have taken all.

I think we should make the top earners pay their share .... something that has dwindled since the 1920's!
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:06 AM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,356,525 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdal625 View Post
+1
+2
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:08 AM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,356,525 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boardwalk 08755 View Post
Nope, the parents ARE to blame and they need to be held accountable...

BUT the teachers need to cut with the "I'm poor" routine. It's total BS. Drive by any school in your district and take a look at the cars in the parking lot. BMW, Lexus, SUV's, and not a single rusted out Gremlin or Pacer among them. I'm not buying it.
Gremlins or Pacers ... WOW, you really DO wish they were poor, eh?
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Old 02-19-2011, 06:13 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
858 posts, read 2,985,703 times
Reputation: 708
Teaching is a great profession, and I thank the teachers I've had over my lifetime, as they gave me the education necessary to raise my family.

Teaching is a job, and just like any other job the pay and benefits need to be in line with with the job.

This is not meant as a dig: I'm sure most of us would like to have summers off, and the extra long holidays like spring and Christmas, etc., but most jobs are based on a 52 week, 2088 hours work year. So teachers or their unions should not expect a 52 week salary for their shortened work year.

The public sector pensions and benefits are unsustainable at the current levels, and that in evidenced in numerous states with fical issues. The pensions need to be changed over to 401K's, and the employees need to share a fair share of their health benefits. I think most of us would love $10 co-pays for doctors and prescriptions, and free health benefits throughout our retirement, but most of us have much higher co-pays and deductibles, and continue to pay our fair share until we keel over. I also think most of us pay a lot more than 1-1/2% of our salary towards our benefits.

I notices a video a while back where public employees did not want to pay 1/3 of the cost for a $20K plus health benefit plan. I agree that paying ~ $8K would be hard. But you don't have to; the state just needs to offer plans with higher co-pays and deductibles like most of us have, and the cost of the plan will drop considerable. But if you want to keep a plan with $10 co-pays, it's going to increase significantly every year.

The state cannot afford the current defined pension plan. Most employees get back what they've contributed during the 1st 3 year of retirement; after that it's on the taxpayers. Yes, the state should have properly invested it, and if they had there would have been more dollars to fund it. But our politicans did otherwise, and we have to live with what we have. However, the reality is most of us have a 401K, and that's because most businesses could no longer afford defined pension plans either, so what makes us think that the government can continue to do so?

So I think a lot of the negative talk here towards teachers and other public employees is simply because the rest of the public is paying for the fantastic benefits public employees receive through ever increasing property taxes which many can no longer afford.

Most public employees to include teachers do a great job which I appreciate, and I'm sure most others also appreciate, but the general public just wants to be able to afford the taxes.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:23 AM
 
327 posts, read 879,481 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Teachers have been riding the gravy train for a long time now:
agreed...love how NJ Teachers Union Head keeps preaching..

"It's for the kid$$$$$"

meanwhile his annual take home last year was $550,000...

$550,000 for 1 year. maybe he could share that with some of the kid$$$$$$$.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:27 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,337,238 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
I just don't understand why it's "the teachers", and not "the stockbrokers", or "the banks". Why is this economic meltdown being served upon those who had/have the least involvement ... and those who actually SERVE the community?

Why are we giving TRILLIONs of dollars to rich wall-street types, and then trying to recoup those sums of money from middle-class WORKERS, who themselves, pay taxes (and DON't send our jobs overseas).

I fear for our kids, too ... who are going to have nothing left, because of the greed of the U.S. Upper Class. And I fear for the solvency of our republic once the rich have taken all.

I think we should make the top earners pay their share .... something that has dwindled since the 1920's!
this certainly won't be very popular, but matt taibbi was on bill maher last night talking about his newest book. i wouldn't exactly use him as a "source", but he did say something funny about how the financial melt down not a single person has been criminally prosecuted, the investments that helped crush our economy (and the pensions), and yet we read in the news that the pensions are breaking states. i'm not saying i agree with it 100% but it's a good point. ok....flame away.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, Nazi Jerky
367 posts, read 956,848 times
Reputation: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Teachers have been riding the gravy train for a long time now: great pay and superb government benefits for only 9 months work per year--well, actually about 8 if you count-up all the holidays they get off. Also, they don't even need more than a bachelor's degree, and it doesn't even have to be in Education in some states. What other job offers good pay and killer bennies for a profession whose clients (students) are in session only 180 days a year?
Times are tough, many of us have to tighten our belts. Why do these teachers think they are some sort of sacred cows who should be spared from sacrificing a bit like many others are?
This^
Also, what other job can you get that, after you are granted tenure, it is virtually impossible to be fired unless your incompetence or indifference reaches galactic proportions, and then only maybe. tenure has outlived its usefulness and has become the problem, not the solution. Defined benefit pension benefits have to be frozen and replaced with 401Ks. That will help to stop the bottom-of-the-barrel teachers from hanging on just to keep a pension. All new hires would have a 401K. Fully paid medical was fine when it was a cheap benefit. Now it is a budget buster. Teachers are going to have to contribute something more along the lines of the majority in private industry. The wheels have fallen off the gravy train and the teachers, cops, and all public employees are going to have to deal with it and pony up more to pay their way.

Last edited by DFBonnett; 02-19-2011 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,816 posts, read 12,578,273 times
Reputation: 4409
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
I just don't understand why it's "the teachers", and not "the stockbrokers", or "the banks". Why is this economic meltdown being served upon those who had/have the least involvement ... and those who actually SERVE the community?

Why are we giving TRILLIONs of dollars to rich wall-street types, and then trying to recoup those sums of money from middle-class WORKERS, who themselves, pay taxes (and DON't send our jobs overseas).

I fear for our kids, too ... who are going to have nothing left, because of the greed of the U.S. Upper Class. And I fear for the solvency of our republic once the rich have taken all.

I think we should make the top earners pay their share .... something that has dwindled since the 1920's!
This is the quote of the year. +1,000. As a registered republican I am going to burn my registration card. I get it, give the rich breaks so they can outsource all the middle class private sector jobs to India and China and Mexico. Then blame the middle class public sector workers as being leaches on society.
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