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I wouldn't recommend raising your son there. My wife was courted for a high end position at the NM Behavioral Institute. It was a very nice package, and that's what made us really look into things. Don't get me wrong, Las Vegas has it's nicer points but it was obvious that I wouldn't find comparable work there. Also, it's a very Northern New Mexico Hispanic community, which can alienate outsiders easily.
I had a girl that worked for me who grew up there and had just moved to Albuquerque a year before straight out of high school. When she found out we were considering the move, she wholeheartedly recommended against it. She said the two high schools (She had attended both, hoping to find better) could be described as bad and terrible. Very cliquish, unfriendly to outsiders, lots of mini-gangs and bad elements easily available. And she was Hispanic.
We found the housing/neighborhoods very spotty and a lunch at a local park with our toddlers got stares. I got mad dogged, but I'm still not sure why. I think it's because our girls toddled over and began to swing on a set that this guys kids had already 'claimed'. I just pretended like I had no idea what he was doing and trusted he wouldn't get stupid in front of the kids but my wife didn't grow up around here. It made me wonder what she might walk into. To give you an idea of what mad dogging can lead to out here, a guy who was squinting due to a torn contact invited gang signs and gunfire which was later returned with people actually being shot. Apparently the guy mistook squinting for mad dogging.
In the end, we decided it would be a great place to 'pay your dues' catch up on debt, enjoy the local wilderness and build up to a better move if we were single. In the back of our minds was the awareness that if for some reason she lost this position, she would almost certainly not be able to find something comparable (see Gallit's comments on 'who you know'.). It would trigger an early, unexpected move that would kill what might have been the benefit anyway. Finally, the thought of my girls growing up there caused me to veto against my wife's undecided.
I hate to throw out a negative, but honesty is one of the points of these forums. If you had the weekend we did, to drive up and really get a feel for the place, I think you'd come to some of the same conclusions.
Last edited by ziaAirmac; 10-29-2008 at 09:24 AM..
Reason: typo
Great information. Thank you! I had a nice conversation with the hiring official at the university this morning. I still feel that they could use someone with my background and experience, but I am not sure what to think about the town. I would like to help develop the program there, but not if it is at too large a cost for my family.
Can anyone speak more specifically about the schools in Las Vegas? Are there surrounding, commutable towns that are better?
As we saw it, Las Vegas is an all or nothing town. You either move there and commit to a life there, or you don't. We even considered getting a home that split the difference between Las Vegas and say Pecos/Santa Fe but all that does is build a commute into everyone's day and what if one parent has to respond to a child on the other side commute? You're an hour and a half away. That isn't even considering the effects of winter, which up there could easily result in closed roads. We considered all sorts of angles, but in the end decided that if we were going to take the position we needed to just find a great place near the institute to minimize the main commute (my wife's.). In addition, I needed to find something in town. We actually picked a few houses within walking distance.
As for the schools, I can't add any more than I did. It would be great if someone close to the elementary system there could chime in.
A few other thoughts on the offer:
First, we were struck by the seeming dearth of a middle class. It felt like there was the high end academia/medical crowd and then there was the low end service/retail crowd and really nothing in between. Maybe it's a function of the overall direction of the economy, but it seemed more evident in Las Vegas. We didn't feel comfortable with the thought of being in a select group on the top ending up seeing the same people at the parties that you see at work because you're disconnected from the rest of the town on some level.
Second, ask if the University offers or recommends elementary level programs for children of faculty and staff. Where does (did) the Dean send his (her) kids to school. Considering the field they're in, I'd be surprised if they hadn't made the best choice available in the area.
Finally, keep in mind that it's a bit of a fish bowl and coming from the outside with experience makes you especially valuable. Most of the higher level positions have to come from the outside. If you recruit in town, you're effectively cannibalizing a precious resource from another part of the University. Of course the offer looks good. No one ever moved to an isolated town for a bad offer. Your situation is unique to you, but to give you an idea of what we ran into: the guy that actively recruited my wife had been with the Institute for over ten years. He praised her experience and was very complimentary in the interviews. He talked about how he looked forward to working with her on developing the program she was being considered to develop/head. He was gone three weeks later. Coincidence? Maybe, but if he had any idea he was ready to punch out, he sure didn't make it clear in the interviews. He said what needed to be said to get her to consider signing on. It's just that simple.
Very candid and appreciated points. I have a soft spot for that area, but all the concerns you mention are on my mind too. I agree it would be great to hear from someone who raised their children in Las Vegas. It is also a very good idea to ask what the academics have chosen to do with their children. Much appreciated.
Did you happen to see if there were any good trails right around the town, or were they farther up in the Sangre de Cristos?
While we weren't specifically looking, our impression was it's pretty spotty. The areas around the University seemed really nice and some of the nearby tree lined streets, but other areas were not so hot. The river didn't look like it had any sort of official trail connected to it, and the one park we stopped at didn't have trails coming or going. Storey lake is just up the road and I imagine would offer some nice walking opportunities. Otherwise I think you're looking at heading for the mountains (which, while not in town are all quite near.).
I guess I flatter myself and think I could make a difference. But life is humbling. I must also think of the family, so these posts are hitting home. I have not been through Las Vegas for 10 years, so unfortunately I do not have my own observations to view all this through.
Given your handle, are you a thunderstorm enthusiast? It would seem that part of the world provides good opportunities for light shows.
People like you would be like the diamond in the rough. Coming from another area that has higher standards and higher work ethic. Yes, I love thunderstorms!! Especially the bad ones!
I am from Vegas,born and raised.Graduated from West and have my BA and MA from HU. The school systems are not as bad as some people like to believe.It's a great place to raise a child;though the early education programs could use some help(as in funding).
As far as work ethics both my ex and I had to slow down when we moved away from there to Albuquerque.We were both used to working hard and multi-tasking.Working for UNM;I've had to slow down a lot compared to what I was used to.
Vegas can be a closed community;you get the wrong person mad at you or try and force them(as in the community) to change when they aren't ready for it and you will most likely be treated as an outcast.Leave people to their own business and mind yours and you will be fine.
As for outdoor activities;they are in abundance and easily accessible within a short drive in pretty much any direction.
Jiggs69,Thanks for the much-needed advice on the schools, and also the advice on getting along in Las Vegas. I am pretty live and let live, but my wife is more feisty.Do you know anything about the village of Montezuma? Does it have a school? Seems pretty cool with the United World College and all. Are there any nice towns around that might be good places to live, besides downtown LV, or is that the best place going? Judging on other college towns I have visited, the neighborhoods near the college are often the nicest. Can anyone speak to that?
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