Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hello everyone. I'm kicking around an idea as I contemplate retirement ~10 years from now.
The idea seems very relevant to this thread. Please let me know what you think.
Note: I, like many others, will not have much at all in my 401k so must will rely on social security... UGH!
I'd imagine there's a lot of others in the same situation so here's my thinking...
Broad overview: Build a small (6-10 unit) RV park that is a year round off-grid retirement group.
Details:
1) I would purchase 40-60 acres north of Madrid/Cerrillos.
2) I would install a very large solar array. (I'm a former Navy Nuclear Electrician's Mate, 30+ years power generation, travel/build/operate wind turbines so I feel very qualified to operate and maintain this for 25-30 years).
3) No permanent houses/buildings.
4) 5th wheel, trailers mostly, motor homes possibly, but no need as expect to be permanent.
5) No septic systems... Composting toilets required.
6) I would build canopies over the RVs for shade.
7) No well...I would place 1500 gal plastic water storage tanks underground, water catch and water haul.
8) Each 'RV site' gets 1-3 acres. (size determined by distance the electric can be sent economically).
9) I maintain the site roads.
10) Community gazebo area with campfire and stage for music.
11) Residents pay for their water haul, internet, cable.
12) Propane and generators not allowed.
13) Charge very low yearly rent... I'm thinking 2500-4000.
Why RVs, no well, septic, propane tanks? If everything is 'portable' then low taxes, easier zoning, cost of living etc.
This is not intended to be a money making business for me, but a means to live a good life in retirement on a low budget.
I also don't want to live a lonely retirement, but love being away from it all and want good neighbors in case something happens.
Currently I make a good living and could have this all set up and paid for in 6-8 years.
Gauging interest and zoning requirements before moving forward.
This sounds like a brilliant idea until about October. Then it'll get cold, windy, snowy, and it doesn't look like you've planned for that.
No propane or generators, so I guess people will have to idle their RV's. And leave to get diesel every day.
Unless you plan on providing space heaters powered by your massive array (and an even more massive battery), the winter looks like it'll be pretty bitter. Alternatively, you can make this a summer-only affair.
I also have a bit of skepticism with your temporary canopy idea. Between brutal UV, blowing sand, huge temperature swings, and mean hailstorms, unless you build them out of some kind of exotic material, I think you'll have to give up on those.
How does "community gazebo" square with "no permanent buildings"?
I should have clarified, the canopy would be a sturdy structure... think wood or metal frame with corrugated metal roof. Large enough to provide shade and protection from the elements.
Perhaps a better name is open RV shelter.
I'm certain you've all seen these at RV parks.
I'm open to propane use although would prefer to use electric heat. (RVs would be 4 seasons).
Mostly looking to reduce the carbon footprint and expenses.
Another concern is zoning with multiple 500 gal tanks and the possibility that with an RV permanently connected to the tanks, would that make them a permanent building?
The electric connections I'm not too concerned with in the same way, as the RVs would be plugged in. (think 240v 50/60/100 amp).
Connecting the RVs to underground water tanks does give me pause though.
I don't believe the types of structures I'm proposing (open RV shelter, gazebo and the like) would be considered buildings or 'improvements' but I could be wrong.
Yes the solar system would be quite large... think 13-22 kwh (48-72 300 watt panels - ground mount - and NiFe battery storage.... but power generation and distribution is my area of expertise.
Yes, the electrical control house would be a permanent building.
… more zoning questions... ugh!
I'm also thinking walipini in-ground greenhouses and experimenting with what I call a '3/4 walipini' for the RVs.
Imagine a walipini dug into a hillside with one open side and a metal roof... park the RV under/inside.
Again, great thoughts/questions.
Everyone please keep them coming, especially if you have experience with any of the ideas.
Since you're talking off-grid electric heat (my specialty as well), methinks you need to take a look at the math.
Say you could limit each RV to a maximum steady use of 1500W (one large electric heater). During those nasty cold winters where it gets down to zero and the wind HOWLS through that area nonstop, let's pretend that will be sufficient (I'm skeptical).
Call it 10 units, and everybody is using their full allotment, 24/7. 15 kW draw. It's freakin' cold outside. Your total energy requirement comes out to 360kWh per day (just to run one heater per RV).
Your solar array is only getting about 4 good hours of sunshine most winter days but then a huge snow front comes in and it's more like 1 good hour for two days straight (and that's if you go outside to brush the snow off the panels).
This means to cover this contingency you need to have at least 120kW of panels (400 300-watt panels), and a 720 kWh battery (12V, 60,000 Ah). Probably looking at about $300k, which is less than I expected, but still nuts. Or, if you're dead-set on Nickel-Iron, $1M+.
Now obviously this would be a rare occurrence, but I wouldn't be surprised to see you hit with it once a year on average.
When the rubber hits the road, you're probably either going to have to go grid-tie instead of off-grid, or provide some fossil-fuel based solution like a large portable genset or two. Depending on the site you might even be able to burn locally harvested biomass (pine logs or DIY pellets) to run the thing.
IMO, you'll also need to look at both the potable water supply and the liquid waste. Folks have to shower/bath, wash hands, dishes, etc - that means you'll have to have suitable waste-handling facilities. That's likely going to mean some sort of individual septic system......or a central one. There went development costs, either way.
And depending on NM health laws, your potable water systems will have to comply with a number of regulations - and, I suspect, require a pressure pump. That means an equipment pad that's protected from freezing....with some kind of heat source (unless you're a fan of replacing pumps that have frozen and cracked). Of course, you might be able to get around that by using small submersible pumps......but have you looked at the costs of burying all these tanks? They're going to have to be a LOT more substantial than just the poly storage tanks you see, since they'll have to be able to withstand the pressure from the pit side walls that will be trying to collapse inward. And unless I'm missing my guess, they're going to require that the water have bacteria controls of some sort - most likely chlorine with retention. Some of that could be best addressed by going to "pods" rather than 100% stand-alone pad sites - feed 4-6 (or whatever) sites from one central water supply.
I think your intention is good, but not really very practical as laid out.
40-60 acres and you want to have just 6-10 spaces? Why so few? With 6-10 spaces, unless you are going to charge $1000 a month, you will never get your money back.
Also, consider the weather. I don't know New Mexico as far as elevations and climates. The "back east" idea of New Mexico is that winter is great out there. Is there a part of New Mexico that doesn't get very cold for very long stretches?
40-60 acres and you want to have just 6-10 spaces? Why so few? With 6-10 spaces, unless you are going to charge $1000 a month, you will never get your money back.
Also, consider the weather. I don't know New Mexico as far as elevations and climates. The "back east" idea of New Mexico is that winter is great out there. Is there a part of New Mexico that doesn't get very cold for very long stretches?
I second this -10 acres per space seems excessive. Sounds like a lot of costs to only be collecting revenue from 6 - 10 spaces at any time.
Hello everyone. I'm kicking around an idea as I contemplate retirement ~10 years from now.
The idea seems very relevant to this thread. Please let me know what you think.
Note: I, like many others, will not have much at all in my 401k so must will rely on social security... UGH!
I'd imagine there's a lot of others in the same situation so here's my thinking...
Broad overview: Build a small (6-10 unit) RV park that is a year round off-grid retirement group.
Details:
1) I would purchase 40-60 acres north of Madrid/Cerrillos.
2) I would install a very large solar array. (I'm a former Navy Nuclear Electrician's Mate, 30+ years power generation, travel/build/operate wind turbines so I feel very qualified to operate and maintain this for 25-30 years).
3) No permanent houses/buildings.
4) 5th wheel, trailers mostly, motor homes possibly, but no need as expect to be permanent.
5) No septic systems... Composting toilets required.
6) I would build canopies over the RVs for shade.
7) No well...I would place 1500 gal plastic water storage tanks underground, water catch and water haul.
8) Each 'RV site' gets 1-3 acres. (size determined by distance the electric can be sent economically).
9) I maintain the site roads.
10) Community gazebo area with campfire and stage for music.
11) Residents pay for their water haul, internet, cable.
12) Propane and generators not allowed.
13) Charge very low yearly rent... I'm thinking 2500-4000.
Why RVs, no well, septic, propane tanks? If everything is 'portable' then low taxes, easier zoning, cost of living etc.
This is not intended to be a money making business for me, but a means to live a good life in retirement on a low budget.
I also don't want to live a lonely retirement, but love being away from it all and want good neighbors in case something happens.
Currently I make a good living and could have this all set up and paid for in 6-8 years.
Gauging interest and zoning requirements before moving forward.
If you're very, very interested, please comment.
Close it during the winter time and take your RV down to Arizona.
Close it during the winter time and take your RV down to Arizona.
Kind of destroys the "13) Charge very low yearly rent... I'm thinking 2500-4000." advantage, if there is one...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
