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Some of the questions from opossum1 seem to assume that all Native American tribes are alike or should be alike in how they respond to outsiders. Nothing could be farther from reality, and there are many differences even among the different Pueblos who have different traditions, different histories, different kinds of contact with outsiders over the centuries which inform their attitudes toward visitors.
I've been also wondering if there're healers who're a real deal, not just for a show.
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Yes, real deal. Also, on Navajo Rez. But sometimes it's like in Russia; it can be risky. You never know if the shaman will heal you or damage you (depending on the shaman).
I found old footage of regular life actives in one of the pueblos (1930s). It shows scenes of regular daily life and then, at the very end of the movie they show pretty grim footage from "government school"...big contrast... no one would go there voluntarily I bet. It's good the old way of life was documented, otherwise it's gone and forgotten eventually. You can see how people have sincere smiles of these faces, don't think people smile like this anymore here...
Throughout the world, some people voluntarily chose to live the old way because they don't want to live the so-called modern way... the thing is that in the US one can't really do it in most places, because some government officials will tell you have to have this and that, septic/plumbing, some vision of square-shaped "kitchen" they imagine, running water, can have cattle or chicken and pay much tax...one way or no way...I never was able to understand that (and hopefully will return back to where people still live the old way .
Yes, real deal. Also, on Navajo Rez. But sometimes it's like in Russia; it can be risky. You never know if the shaman will heal you or damage you (depending on the shaman).
Yes, in Russia, some shamans are very real (unlike the touristy versions of them) but I don't really consider them risky... I mean if you're accepted by the land spirits and come in agreement, no shaman can damage you, as they're a servant of these spirits.
They say one may experience shaman illness at a point in life, "heavy gift", which is their powers demanding to come out...when a regular person dies and shaman is born.
Some of the questions from opossum1 seem to assume that all Native American tribes are alike or should be alike in how they respond to outsiders. Nothing could be farther from reality, and there are many differences even among the different Pueblos who have different traditions, different histories, different kinds of contact with outsiders over the centuries which inform their attitudes toward visitors.
Actually, no. I did not say that...Frankly, seems like the reason you say this about me is just the hostility to the nature of my simple question. What I "seem to assume"...I assure it just seems to you, because you probably don't like the straight question I asked where I could just walk so you try to pick on me (going by your previous post too), and to read something in my posts that does not exist there. You even went as far as almost putting words in my mouth, imagining that I said that tribes somehow "should" be alike. (actually, to think of it, guess what? In most of the WORLD most nations aren't closed to outsiders and there're many, many nations in the world, way more than there're states...but it's entirely up to them)
It's you who, I think, are stereotyping me as some kind of ignorant or hostile white person, while you never even seen me.
Luckily, real life Native American people I met in my life so far had not been hostile and close-minded as people on this forum and were the complete opposite of "online version".
I really doubt you actually know that much about life on pueblos, somehow...
It's so good real life people in NM aren't like some on this forum and are very nice and friendly. Seems like way nicer people in real life, in fact the nicest in the US, not hateful at all and I'd rather ask my question in person not to bigoted online "couch experts", not to listen to condescending lectures.
I think there's clear racism towards me in responses... and I'm a person of different ethnic backgrounds of more than one race....didn't take anyone's land, pal. In fact, it's your country that seems to want to kill everyone in my old country...but I dk, I don't use this fact to assume things about individual US-born persons.
By the way, I myself had grown up in part where outsiders weren't allowed (this is no longer the case there)....I seriously doubt that any of you who're trying to lecture me here had experienced this kind of life or can even imagine it. I bet you're big city dwellers with nice medical care and housing.
In fact in several posts above (which you probably did not read) I am explicitly saying that different Native American tribes are quite different, look different, respond to outsiders differently, have different history, etc, etc, etc. In fact someone stated wrong historic fact and I responded this way. And it's someone else who said that I'd need to look like Native American to blend-in on pueblo land, to which I responded that different Native American tribes look different so one won't necessarily blend in. But I see the hostility and chip on your shoulder, so I won't bother responding to you or reading your posts again. Seems like all over America people have their minds completely warped and poisoned by racism...it's unreal.
Won't report to ya, racist hater...don't count on it. May be you should report from jail where you'll end up for being alive, walking or breathing the air...in your prison-like world...actually, you already live in jail, I'm so sorry for ones like you.
What you wish on others...will come to you. And don't complain about racism later since you practice it.
You're hateful, sick people, if you think that something is wrong with asking if they can walk somewhere, you need your head checked. Bars on windows, barbwire fences everywhere, 3 no trespassing sign on every fence here, pitbulls, mental people thinking something is wrong with asking if one can walk...just add Trump's wall...ya live in a nasty prison.
There's nothing wrong with your question, there's something wrong with your attitude of arrogance, superiority and entitlement. You keep attacking people who have politely tried to answer your question. So I was merely suggesting you ignore them, carry that attitude out onto the pueblos and let us know what happens. And now I'm a racist for saying that? Seriously? My comment had nothing to do with race.
I assume you can walk in any people's neighborhood in ABQ, where you seem to live without feeling like you're a museum exibit. You also can walk anywhere in VA pretty much. And on most reservations - you can, no big deal.
This statement was the one which seemed to me to imply an expectation that the Pueblos should be like any other place in the US, that it should be "no big deal" to walk around on Pueblo land just like any other neighborhood or reservation in the US. As someone who's visited many Pueblos over the last 30 years I know from personal experience that is not the case. But you don't have to trust me.
If you are so curious, then why ask perfect strangers here, only to insult them when their answers aren't what you like? Make friends with some of these Pueblo people you've met and maybe you'll be invited to their communities.
There are plenty of Natives in the SW who still live without running water or electricity. About 35% of people on the Navajo Reservation for example don't have running water in the home.
Inside Zuni pueblo living quarters is actually on google street view.
Looks like regular NM town....I'd think it's Mountainaire.
Oh by the way, seems like their only Inn is owned by Euros, in fact the dude who owns it was born in France... lol. And the same family owns the shopping center. I wonder how they bend in since they don't look like locals... huh huh....oh boy, they even pose in some kind of Bavarian and cowboy costumes right inside pueblo.
Just look at Board of Directors of Zuni Mainstreet, it not just that family...nuff said.
How come no one chased them with pitchforks and where all the cops had been looking... or, may be out there it's not what some try to paint, huh huh.
Btw, not sure why many people abandoned adobe construction in favor of manufactured homes which are worst and pure unhealthy crap made of glued cardboard and deteriorate quick even in NM climate. Seems like with abundant dirt being free one could build big adobe square footage.
OP's question was answered several pages ago but he seems unwilling to accept it. New Mexicans know and respect the fact that the Pueblo people have been here for 1000+ years. They have their own lands, laws, ceremonies, language, government, and history. Visitors are not encouraged to roam willy-nilly around a Pueblo. This is not a Disney park. If they have established a way to allow visitors in on tours or special days there will be rules for visitors.
I don't know why this is difficult to understand or respect. If you go to Europe and decide to visit the great sacred cathedrals, they have rules of decorum and a dress code and someone who enforces it. If you go to a mosque you observe certain rules. Pueblos are sacred places in a different tradition and visitors need to show respect and conform to the rules.
OP's question was answered several pages ago but he seems unwilling to accept it. New Mexicans know and respect the fact that the Pueblo people have been here for 1000+ years. They have their own lands, laws, ceremonies, language, government, and history. Visitors are not encouraged to roam willy-nilly around a Pueblo. This is not a Disney park. If they have established a way to allow visitors in on tours or special days there will be rules for visitors.
I don't know why this is difficult to understand or respect. If you go to Europe and decide to visit the great sacred cathedrals, they have rules of decorum and a dress code and someone who enforces it. If you go to a mosque you observe certain rules. Pueblos are sacred places in a different tradition and visitors need to show respect and conform to the rules.
Because this doesn't exist in Russia. You can go to any Native village and walk around. Of course, there's no such thing as tribal sovereignty and separate laws for tribal people in Russia, either. But anyone can seek out a traditional healer/shaman for help there. In the pueblos, even other pueblo people can't go to another pueblo's healers, unless they have relatives in that community. And there are other differences in how the healer scene functions that seem very odd from a Russian perspective.
We know nothing about the OP, except that he's originally from Russia, and it sounds like he may be from some Native nationality or other non-Slavic nationality. He may have a lot less problem blending in than anyone here thinks, depending on his heritage, I can tell you from experience.
Still, OP, some pueblos do limit pretty strictly where people can walk around. Others are more open. If you look at Taos Pueblo's website, for example, you'll see that they're "open" much of the time, except during certain ceremonial periods, but there's further info stating where one cannot go, info about being respectfully-behaved, etc. etc. Being "open" to the public, however, applies mainly to the core area, where the more traditional buildings are (i.e. adobe). One is discouraged from wandering around other residential parts of the community, but insofar as there are little restaurants along the community roads, it seems one could venture into some of those areas up to a point.
I have some info from a friend who lived at Hopi for a length of time. Hopi is open to people wandering around. And if a visitor should happen to get too close to an area that's restricted for any reason, the locals will let that visitor know. One can also go to the Vixitor's Center on Second Mesa to ask if there are any dances or ceremonies that particular day or weekend (whatever), that may be open to observers.
Hopi still has communities that are occupied since people first arrived on the mesas, consisting of all-adobe buildings dating back close to 1000 years. (Old Oraibi, for ex.) It may be that one would have to be invited by a tribal member to see those parts, I"m not sure. One could inquire at the Visitors' Center.
Hopi is considered a Pueblo community, even though it's over in Arizona, btw. And yes, they still have their healers of various sorts (herbalists, bone-setters, shamans), but the shamans are regarded as dangerous, and are approached only as a last resort, after all other healing strategies have been tried.
The pueblos now build homes out of modern materials because that's what the US Department of Housing and Urban Development pays for, for tribal communities. It's easier to include modern conveniences, like plumbing, for one thing. Notice that even in Russia, the log cabins, which insulate so much better in both winter and summer, and are more breathable and comfortable in some ways than the cement pre-fab apartment buildings, all lack running water, even the ones in the cities. Nowadays, people who want private homes with plumbing in or near the cities are building with brick, not thick cedar or other evergreen logs, which actually would be more comfortable and longer-lasting than brick buildings. Well, I take it back; I know someone who built a two-story private home outside his city out of logs hauled from a long way away. But that's rare.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 02-01-2020 at 12:07 PM..
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And now I'm a racist for saying that? Seriously? My comment had nothing to do with race.
