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Most Special Ops airmen and women are coming from the emerald coast (Northwest Florida), and are very disappointed with how politics trumped common sense.
I would say common sense won in this matter. They are opening the largest overland supersonic airspace in the US over NM, there are countless training grounds, no city encroachment for 6 miles and Kirtland is 3+ hours away. What area could be more apt for handling anti-terror training than NM??
The flightline and the buildings would be an absolute WASTE to go unused and they want to put nearly 100 aircraft there. What other base is just sitting around that could possibly handle such a tall order? If you are going there send me a PM if you have questions.
I don't know what people qualify as a "gang" but I sure the heck did not see a single one while I was up there. Maybe there are none, or maybe common sense STREET SMARTS kept me out of the "bad areas".
I grew up in the Clovis/Portales area. When I left (the late '90s) the gangs were just starting to move in. It was not widespread, but it was most definitely there. You had maybe a few kids in the high schools and such who were real gangmembers --- most who had moved there from El Paso, Albuquerque, Dallas, etc --- and were looking to establish their own local crew.
What you did have were a lot of gangbanger-wanna-bes, and in some ways they could be worse. How things have improved or gotten worse in the last 10 years or so...I don't know. But I would be VERY hesitant about sending my kids to either Clovis or Portales high school. Private Christian schools and home-schooling are pretty popular in the area.
No, you don't have drive-by shootings and such in the area. At least none that I've ever heard of. Most of the really violent stuff is not random but very targeted. You just have to watch what area you live in. The crime you'll need to watch out for in the area are property crimes like burglary, larceny, and such. Mostly kids and/or the local drug addicts trying to finance their habit through theft. There is the occasional armed robbery at a convenience store.
There have been some pretty high profile murders in the area, but of the ones I can remember, none of them were random. They tend to be crimes of passion, the psycho stalker from last year who killed the waitress in Portales, and the very occasional home invasion gone bad.
Drugs are a big problem in the area and have been for many years. When I was growing up, it was mostly alcohol, marijuana, and pills. Alcoholism is a big problem for locals, and the college kids love to smoke pot. Honestly though, the biggest problems that kind of stuff causes is drunk driving (which is a real problem) and the occasional loud party.
But meth has moved into the area in a big way. Meth is a nation-wide problem right now though, hardly unique to eastern New Mexico.
Clovis is by no means the worst place I've ever been. Not by a long shot. But to be honest, I'm glad I left and would not ever willingly go back.
I grew up in the Clovis/Portales area. When I left (the late '90s) the gangs were just starting to move in. It was not widespread, but it was most definitely there. You had maybe a few kids in the high schools and such who were real gangmembers --- most who had moved there from El Paso, Albuquerque, Dallas, etc --- and were looking to establish their own local crew.
Whatever gang presence there was in the city at the time I left (2001) was not overtly present in most of the areas I would recommend someone to move to. Drugs are an issue down to the smallest, quaintest town in the US. There is no town in America where you can allow your kids to grow up unchecked. No statistics that take the place of proper parental supervision.
I saw none of the street prowling, spraypainting and riffraff that I see in Newburgh NY which does have some very serious gang and drug issues. I don't doubt that there are gangs there, but question why the heck someone would go into those areas in the first place. They are very obvious when you drive through the town.
I absolutely agree that the public schools there are for the birds, and that private school is the way to go.
I guess my point is that I don't see any activity in Clovis that makes is so unique to seperate it from your average mid sized city. I have been in far worse places that were around the same size. And I agree with your post Mark! Up to the never would come back part. I would return to Clovis, but I would try to find a different city in NM first.
I've lived in the portales/clovis area almost my whole life and have never seen a prostitute or dont recall seeing a homeless person. Its a good town but does feel more like west texas instead of new mexico. Most of the crime in clovis is from the druggies and some gang members. In 2004 clovis did have 10 murders and only a population of 32,000.
At first glance, keeping cannon open would seem like a good deal. Open airspace and large sized "ranges". But that's about it.
Supersonic airspace means nothing in Special Ops as the aircraft don't fly remotely close to the speed of sound, target ID in an open desert provides no training and most importantly, the high altitude nature of Clovis puts the aircraft at a performance disadvantage; reducing mission effectiveness by at least 50%.
You should be proud of your legislators and special interest groups (committee of fifty); they were able to use their wealth and influence to overturn what DOD officials thought to be a smart move.
You should be proud of your legislators and special interest groups (committee of fifty); they were able to use their wealth and influence to overturn what DOD officials thought to be a smart move.
I have heard my fair share of negatives regarding Eglin area as well as far as military training - at least for fighters..who knows.
I am a tad surprised that they did not send a F-22 unit over to Cannon instead of the Spec Ops unit though. But the base was slated for closure and they were keeping so many lower quality @#$% bases open. THAT definately did not make sense.
Make the best of it if you are one of the people going, that's all I have to say.
You should be proud of your legislators and special interest groups (committee of fifty); they were able to use their wealth and influence to overturn what DOD officials thought to be a smart move.
This was definitely politics. No doubt about it. But honestly, this probalby had more to do with Pete Dominici (and to a lesser extent Jeff Bingaman) than Clovis's Committee of 50. The Committe has loads of local influence, big state influence, but not much on the national level.
This was definitely politics. No doubt about it. But honestly, this probalby had more to do with Pete Dominici (and to a lesser extent Jeff Bingaman) than Clovis's Committee of 50. The Committe has loads of local influence, big state influence, but not much on the national level.
Slating the base for closure in the first place was really stupid IMO. Then they leave Ellsworth off the list??? That whole last BRAC round was a half-a$$ farce IMO.
The only reason the F-16's are leaving Cannon is they have 3 different block model F-16's and the DOD wants bases to have only 1 particular block model at each base. SO...Cannon got axed and other bases are gaining their planes. Farmers were willing to give up 100's of acres of land to increase the supersonic airspace to keep that base open. If it wasn't for that generous move and the fact that Cannon has nice facilities I really believe that Cannon would still be stated for closure. All this while they keep puny F-16 ANG bases open that can't hold a candle to Cannon's capabilities.
At least the anti-terror unit going there will have plenty of desert terrain to train in..
I've lived in the portales/clovis area almost my whole life and have never seen a prostitute or dont recall seeing a homeless person. Its a good town but does feel more like west texas instead of new mexico. Most of the crime in clovis is from the druggies and some gang members. In 2004 clovis did have 10 murders and only a population of 32,000.
I took note that you said you've lived there most of your life. Are you still there and could you tell me more about the area from a local's perspective? I have a relocation packet from Clovis, I read the online paper frequently, I've checked up on things like realestate, taxes, economy, etc. I've scrounged for as many pictures of the area as possible. I know that the area is not scenic, but that isn't the most important thing, since I also know it doesn't take that long to get to the nicer-looking areas in NM, (I grew up in Wyoming, so I know about distance out west. ). I haven't had a chance to actually look at it in person, but that is in the works. I have read some of the other posts from others who used to live there, which was helpful, but, it would be nice to hear a CURRENT local's opinion. No place is perfect, but, I would certainly like to change my lifestyle, and I'm done with NW Florida!
I've scrounged for as many pictures of the area as possible. I know that the area is not scenic, but that isn't the most important thing, since I also know it doesn't take that long to get to the nicer-looking areas in NM,
I can't help you with a current resident's view, but I can help you with a mental image of Clovis's landscape.
To give you an idea about the Topography...Clovis sits on the edge of the Llano Estacado (staked plains)- which is the flattest area in the USA. The sky is blue about 320 days a year, which makes it one of the sunniest locations in the US. Winters are kind of short, but brutally windy at times. The majority of the "poorer" houses in town are adobe/stucco. The more recent, more expensive homes north of the city tend to be brick. The city itself is fairly compact and easy to navigate, most streets are set up in a grid pattern.
There are no real hills untill you get south towards Portales, no forested areas, and there is a lot of farmland. The only lake you are going to see is the one off the back way to Portales from the base, unless there has been a flash flood then there is usually a lake near the entrance to Walmart LOL!
Last edited by Yac; 08-21-2006 at 01:59 PM..
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Clovis is not that bad
