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Old 04-11-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Old Town
1,979 posts, read 3,545,404 times
Reputation: 2034

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
I don't like the big fake outsider money and all the "pretending".
All these people are dealing in counterfeit notes? What is big fake outsider money? Why should an area only be for the locals? People shouldn't be allowed to succeed and move to an area that makes them happy?

Quote:
Nature is pretty, so are all the small mountain villages around Taos and Santa Fe and these small settlement cultures is what I consider "true NM culture" not the "I came from New York or L.A. 'cause it was crowded and brought my $3 million so now that I am all taken care of I can BS the world about spirits and vortexes".

OD
People with money shouldn't be allowed to enjoy Nature and all it's surroundings?

You have a very awful view of people. Especially those that have succeeded financially in life. As I have already stated I have lots of family throughout Norther NM. My grandfathers ranch and our land grant is up near Villanueva. My wife's family ranch is in Abiquiu (also a land grant). I have family (immediate and extended) throughout a lot of areas in N. NM. There is many wealthy people that live in most of those areas that I have known for many many years and some that are recent. I cannot think of one that are dealing in counterfeit currency nor talk about spirits or vortexes. Most love the area they choose to live/retire in. Accept the culture and try to immerse themselves into the community. Is there some that are what you insinuate. Sure, but from my experience that is a very small percentage. Life, communities evolve. If it were all to just stagnate they would fall apart as you have suggested for historic buildings.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:58 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,143,013 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMHacker View Post
All these people are dealing in counterfeit notes? What is big fake outsider money? Why should an area only be for the locals? People shouldn't be allowed to succeed and move to an area that makes them happy?

People with money shouldn't be allowed to enjoy Nature and all it's surroundings?

You have a very awful view of people. Especially those that have succeeded financially in life. As I have already stated I have lots of family throughout Norther NM. My grandfathers ranch and our land grant is up near Villanueva. My wife's family ranch is in Abiquiu (also a land grant). I have family (immediate and extended) throughout a lot of areas in N. NM. There is many wealthy people that live in most of those areas that I have known for many many years and some that are recent. I cannot think of one that are dealing in counterfeit currency nor talk about spirits or vortexes. Most love the area they choose to live/retire in. Accept the culture and try to immerse themselves into the community. Is there some that are what you insinuate. Sure, but from my experience that is a very small percentage. Life, communities evolve. If it were all to just stagnate they would fall apart as you have suggested for historic buildings.
People with money should enjoy nature and its surroundings, not destroy it with their McMansions. Most ranches have been turned into subdivisions and these subdivisions are mostly seasonal for some a**hole from California or New York to come twice a year and "enjoy the Nature". Locals tend to be priced out of the area because they cannot afford the land they were born near.

I have nothing against financial success, I have everything against what people do with it.

Counterfeit money? Eh? I meant fake as in the person who is spending it pretending they are something they are not.

OD
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Old Town
1,979 posts, read 3,545,404 times
Reputation: 2034
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
People with money should enjoy nature and its surroundings, not destroy it with their McMansions. Most ranches have been turned into subdivisions and these subdivisions are mostly seasonal for some a**hole from California or New York to come twice a year and "enjoy the Nature". Locals tend to be priced out of the area because they cannot afford the land they were born near.

I have nothing against financial success, I have everything against what people do with it.

Counterfeit money? Eh? I meant fake as in the person who is spending it pretending they are something they are not.

OD
You're full of hyperbole. Most Ranches have been turned into subdivisions? There has been 1000+/- people move to Taos in the last decade or so but they take up most ranches.

In other words, do with their money as you see fit. Who is to decide how people want to live? When does one stop 'pretending'? Obviously, when you decide. Correct?

btw...I am an a**hole that moved here from CA.

Last edited by NMHacker; 04-11-2012 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Old Town
1,979 posts, read 3,545,404 times
Reputation: 2034
You are wrong. You have no facts to backup that MOST ranches have been turned into subdivisions. You have a right to your opinion but back them up with facts.

Funny that you rant about this but choose to rent in that type of environment.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:48 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,143,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMHacker View Post
You are wrong. You have no facts to backup that MOST ranches have been turned into subdivisions. You have a right to your opinion but back them up with facts.

Funny that you rant about this but choose to rent in that type of environment.
There are deals all over NM offering subdivisions that used to be ranches. Windmill ranches, Valentine ranch, Deer canyon preserve, Berrenda Creek Ranch, Mimbres mountain ranch, look up Southwest properties, they got three for sale... The list goes on and on. Where do you think all the subdivisions in NM are coming from, thin air? I think you are the one that needs to do the research, not me

I use every inch of the 5 acres for a garden and for horses. This subdivision was originally a ranch and it was used for horses and livestock, I do the same. I also ride the backroads where a hundred years ago the only traffic was horses and wildlife, now it is all these misguided newcomers in SUVs with their urban way of life. Most of them have never seen a horse live and don't know what to do when they see us, some honk (with good intentions), some speed up. Even though I rent in this subdivision I still live life "old school" for the most part and respect what was there. As I said 99% of the lots in this subdivision see no use at all and are just fenced off "show" properties. That's a terrible waste and has nothing to do with "authentic".

Most folks come to this "rural" land and the first thing they do is kill off all wildlife, strap on night lights on their home and spray everything in their yard to kill all "nuisance" insects. Then they start planting non-native plants and start feeding the deer. Soon the whole landscape changes, trees that used to be in the minority become the majority (like cedar). Cedar then starts sucking the water out of the ground and oaks and other native grasses start to die. Deer multiplies because all natural predators are gone and deer becomes a nuisance (but city types feed them nevertheless). Deer will eat oaks but not cedar, unless they have to, so more cedar. Now you need businesses that destroy cedar and this costs money. You also need people to shoot the deer but deer are cute, especially for the baby boomer couple from Houston who are here twice a year and they want to see Bambi during those two visits.

There is a ranch here nearby that decided to "put everything back" as it was - the results were amazing - how quick land recovers on its own once you take the idiots off of it.

Thanks for your attention,
OD
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Old Town
1,979 posts, read 3,545,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
There are deals all over NM offering subdivisions that used to be ranches. Windmill ranches, Valentine ranch, Deer canyon preserve, Berrenda Creek Ranch, Mimbres mountain ranch, look up Southwest properties, they got three for sale... The list goes on and on. Where do you think all the subdivisions in NM are coming from, thin air? I think you are the one that needs to do the research, not me

OD
I don't need to do a google, yahoo or bing search to know that MOST ranches have NOT been turned into subdivisions. I have spent a lot of time of family and friends ranches in the last 18 months. In the areas of Gonzales Ranch, Villanueva, Abiquiu, Tierra Amirrila, Anton Chico, Tremintina, Quemado and Mountainair. I have spent my entire life during summers and other times during the years working ranches around the state. Even the 12 years that I was living in CA. I am very familiar with the ranching life being that most of my family still lives on Ranches of some sort. You list a few. That's it. Just a few. A few != Most.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:23 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,143,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMHacker View Post
I don't need to do a google, yahoo or bing search to know that MOST ranches have NOT been turned into subdivisions. I have spent a lot of time of family and friends ranches in the last 18 months. In the areas of Gonzales Ranch, Villanueva, Abiquiu, Tierra Amirrila, Anton Chico, Tremintina, Quemado and Mountainair. I have spent my entire life during summers and other times during the years working ranches around the state. Even the 12 years that I was living in CA. I am very familiar with the ranching life being that most of my family still lives on Ranches of some sort. You list a few. That's it. Just a few. A few != Most.
Well, think what you want, I stand by what I said - it is a trend that has been going on around the whole country and NM is no exception. Working cattle ranches are shrinking and disappearing and slowly but surely turning into subdivisions. Heck most cowboys nowadays have big duallies (mostly bought on credit) and belt buckles but many can't ride a horse and get most of their work done off ATVs or trucks (they sure like to listen to the "country music" though and laugh at the urbanites). There are a few exceptions here and there and you find that they are very proud of that fact because, yes, they are exceptions. Here in the hill country almost all of them are gone - turned into subdivisions, wild game hunting ranches or dude ranches with a few head of cattle, enough to keep their ag exemptions going.

In your humble opinion, how do you think most subdivisions around the state of NM came to be?

I did not bother to make you a whole long list of all ranches chunked up and for sale or sold in the past, that can be homework for you if you are truly interested and not just keeping this "few != many" discussion going for fun

OD
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Old Town
1,979 posts, read 3,545,404 times
Reputation: 2034
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
Well, think what you want, I stand by what I said - it is a trend that has been going on around the whole country and NM is no exception. Working cattle ranches are shrinking and disappearing and slowly but surely turning into subdivisions.

Again, how do you think most subdivisions around the state came to be?

OD
So now it is a trend and slowly doing so. That does not translate to MOST.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:32 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,143,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMHacker View Post
So now it is a trend and slowly doing so. That does not translate to MOST.
Alrighty, nighty-night, we are done here!
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:41 PM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 3,657,696 times
Reputation: 3282
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
I don't like the big fake outsider money and all the "pretending". Nature is pretty, so are all the small mountain villages around Taos and Santa Fe and these small settlement cultures is what I consider "true NM culture" not the "I came from New York or L.A. 'cause it was crowded and brought my $3 million so now that I am all taken care of I can BS the world about spirits and vortexes".

OD
The plaza in Santa Fe sets some of my opinion of the place. It is a place where they tore down most of the actual 170 year old territorial historic structures and replaced them with buildings that were new yet looked 400 years old. Smart move but not entirely the picture of sincerity.

The fact you have some primate city type retail operations in Santa Fe (Whole Foods, Jaguar/Range Rover, etc) tells you how unusual it is and what an enormous impact the really rich people have had on the place. Not many other small cities like it. I wish I had access to some those goods in Cruces (Trader Joe's!!!) because not even El Paso at 10 times the size of Fe can attract that level of goods.

Rural Northern New Mexico is a different place altogether, when I worked at DOT us anglos had to have a local with us when we went for the initial discussions about possibly taking land for new roads or improvements. Showing that you understood that their families or neighbors had been screwed out of land in the past, had most them sympathetic to you shortly, but the initial contacts could be and were often dicey. I suppose that, and the unusually high occurance of heroin use, is where the Ozarks of New Mexico caricature came from. Course the same went for sending the folks from up north to Hobbs (or little Texas) in reverse.
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