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Old 01-26-2012, 10:43 AM
 
53,095 posts, read 48,391,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drouzin View Post
Perhaps there is a Puerto Rican/Islenos connection? There is also a Filipino influence in lower St. Bernard. Saint Malo was the first Filipino settlement in what is now the US. Hubby works with a couple of Isleno/Filipino guys. It's a shame, but back when I was in school the Islenos and Filipinos of St. Bernard were barely touched upon in LA history. Between Betsy and Katrina both communities have taken quite a blow.
That is a shame. Louisiana was the first place Filipinos were settling in. Some Filipinos escaped from Spanish galleons(The Philippines used to be the Spanish East Indies and alot of Filipinos have Spanish surnames for this reason and are Roman Catholic) and went to the swamps. There were other Filipino settlements, such as Manila Village in Barataria Bay, Alombro Canal and Camp Dewey in Plaquemines Parish. St. Malo is the oldest and Manila Village was the largest. Hurricanes did deal some nasty blows.

Plaquemines Parish in general is quite diverse in its own way. It was the gateway to New Orleans. Early in its history, you had the French, Islenos, African slaves, Italians, Croatians(Empire has one of the largest percentage of people with Croatian ancestry), Filipinos, and this was early on. There has also been immigration from Vietnam to Louisiana.

One thing that has scared me is that such an interesting culture, unlike anything in the South, could be lost.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:31 PM
 
172 posts, read 347,720 times
Reputation: 49
Just curious, what do you locals think of this pronunciation of the name of the city? (in the first five seconds of the video):
Bush Doesn't Care About Black People - YouTube

Mike Myers is Canadian and apparently uses the same pronunciation as all my current "Yankee" neighbors. I have met people from all over the Northeast and California who use this pronunciation, putting the stress on the last syllable.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Denver
14,357 posts, read 20,794,799 times
Reputation: 9251
I personally don't like that pronunciation. Its Nuh Arwlins.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:16 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,311 posts, read 4,389,467 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I personally don't like that pronunciation. Its Nuh Arwlins.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. The local pronunciation is pretty hard to actually put down on paper as there are about 1,000 little nuances to the way it's said.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:29 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,311 posts, read 4,389,467 times
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This looks pretty good:

New Orleans Pronunciation Dilemma | NOLA.com

In short, most people say something a lot like what annie typed. There is an older pronunciation that was the "educated Uptown white" pronunciation which the current mayor uses, but I have never heard anywhere else, and I went to school with a lot of Uptown types.

Then there's "Orleans Parish", which is coextensive with the city, and is ALWAYS pronounced "Or-leenz". The only time, from a local standpoint, that "new orleenz" is acceptable is when used in song, especially for rhyming purposes.

I'd wager that 90% of locals will agree with pretty much everything I just said. On another note, I really have a hard time telling customer service reps my address a lot of the time, because I will speak to them with a fairly neutral accent and then this, sound, will come out when I say the name of the city. Oh, and if you say "N'Awlins", don't worry about the Bermuda shorts and camera, we already know you're a tourist.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:30 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
19,711 posts, read 24,842,579 times
Reputation: 52446
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicoz View Post
Really? I think you must be comparing an African American's voice to a modern African or Caribbean accent. If not maybe you are comparing two American blacks with slight class differences to one another.

And I don't mean to offend but I really don't like the non-rhotic sound in any culture's accent. Because I was raised to speak "California" English (but I'm not from California) which is really the standard dialect used in American media, and many people's idea of proper English. A lot of people who speak this weird non-rhotic stuff make homophones out of words that aren't homophones to anyone else. Serious confusion can arise from that. And it sounds really trashy when people drop the R at the end of a word even if the next word they say starts with a vowel! I imagine a lot of kids in non-rhotic societies don't do very well on spelling tests, especially if they grow up with the "linking" R. Here are some examples of the "linking" R in famous songs:

1. The Beatles, a British band, sang "I SAR (saw) a film today, oh boy"

2. Billy Joel, a musician from NYC, sang "Brender (Brenda) and Eddie"

3. Oasis, another British band, sang "champagne supernover (supernova) in the sky"

Strangely, many Brits have this tendency even though they drop Rs from words that few Americans of any race do (for example, "bird" and "bud" are the same to the British). Even African Americans, who drop Rs before words starting with vowels much of the time, understand the difference between those two words. In my family, we aren't snobs, but we associate non-rhotic with toddlers and Elmer Fudd. I also know a guy with autism who talks a lot but has trouble enunciating, and I assumed he was British when we first met.

You were raised to speak "California English" which you define as the "standard dialect" and you call non-rhotic English "weird"?

OK first, English, the language, is from England. Where non-rhotic speech is the norm.

It is the norm to end words with an "er" as an "ah" and to reverse the two.
Both in England, where the language came from, and in New England New York, much of the North Easy and the South.

In ENGLAND the place where the language came from one does not hear people pronouncing "cot" and "caught" the same way. And there is good reason for this. Look at how they are spelled. They are not the same.

News casters do not speak with a "California dialect." So many Californians seem to think that they are "accent free" when they are not.

Remember the 1980s Valley Girl? That is a mild exaggeration of the California accent.

A good example of the displaced "r" can be found if one listens to tapes of President Kennedy when he speaks of "Cuber"

Or any British person refer to their Mothah" or "Fathha"

(I am not from PA, but the way. The area in which I live has it's own dialect which is rhotiic).

LOVE NOLA, BTW, but saying it's not "Southern" because it is very distinguishable and unique from the rest of the South, would be like saying New York City is the " un-North East", because it is so different from rural up-state NY, the Berkshire Mountains, The Rust Belt of Western NY and Eastern PA. (most of the North East has absolutely nothing in common with NYC. If you were in a suburb of NY, you might as well be in Atlanta. Big Box stores, SUVs, soccer moms, and chain restaurants.

Great old cities are polyglots of cultures,
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Denver
14,357 posts, read 20,794,799 times
Reputation: 9251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
This looks pretty good:

New Orleans Pronunciation Dilemma | NOLA.com

In short, most people say something a lot like what annie typed. There is an older pronunciation that was the "educated Uptown white" pronunciation which the current mayor uses, but I have never heard anywhere else, and I went to school with a lot of Uptown types.

Then there's "Orleans Parish", which is coextensive with the city, and is ALWAYS pronounced "Or-leenz". The only time, from a local standpoint, that "new orleenz" is acceptable is when used in song, especially for rhyming purposes.

I'd wager that 90% of locals will agree with pretty much everything I just said. On another note, I really have a hard time telling customer service reps my address a lot of the time, because I will speak to them with a fairly neutral accent and then this, sound, will come out when I say the name of the city. Oh, and if you say "N'Awlins", don't worry about the Bermuda shorts and camera, we already know you're a tourist.
My head almost exploded trying to type how I say it. True about Orleenz Parish too.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:10 PM
 
172 posts, read 347,720 times
Reputation: 49
I just saw a video of JFK last night where he pronounced "Georgia" as "Georgier" and "Africa" as "Afriker"...
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
19,711 posts, read 24,842,579 times
Reputation: 52446
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicoz View Post
I just saw a video of JFK last night where he pronounced "Georgia" as "Georgier" and "Africa" as "Afriker"...

Yup, and he was Harvard educated.

His English, Boston upper class, was a lot closer to British English that is rhotic English.

Have never heard a Brit use a hard "R", or pronounce "cot" and "caught" the same way.
Or "Merry" Marry" and "Mary" the same way. Each are distinct.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:04 PM
 
172 posts, read 347,720 times
Reputation: 49
Actually, I have heard that the speech of the British started to change after the American Revolution, so really California English is based on a very old British dialect. There is or was a map of England (but not the rest of the UK) on Wikipedia which showed several portions being rhotic before the 1950s. So perhaps the British non-rhotic dialect is considered the ultimate British English by so many Americans because they are thinking of the queen's English, which was different from everyone else's. Or perhaps the first English in America WAS non-rhotic, but sounded much more like "General American" of today than the British English of today. Or perhaps the same trends after the Revolution which changed speech in England changed the speech of New York, Boston, and Virginia... the rhotic white speech of Philadelphia makes this seem possible.
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