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View Poll Results: What should happen to the statue of General Lee?
Take it down and destroy it! 25 11.16%
Take it down and donate to the Confederancy or Other Civil War Museum. 41 18.30%
Don't take it down, it's a part of the history of New Orleans. 123 54.91%
Don't take it down, I support who General Lee was. 35 15.63%
Voters: 224. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-22-2017, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,839,832 times
Reputation: 7256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post

Yes, we can talk about the crime problems. However, your last statement tells me this.
1) There are those who try to paint it as "you can't have those statues taken down and have a nice city at the same time".
2) There are those who only bring up Black crime as a distraction from the subject.
3) #2 leads to this. One would have to admit that maybe alot of Blacks don't like the Confederate flag, or to things that pay tribute to the Confederate cause.
1. NOPD are short staffed. If they are busy guarding monuments then they aren't arresting bad guys.
2. Crime should be the most important subject discussed. Once crime is lowered then I'm all for talking about other subjects. Priorities!
3. Blacks may not like a Confederate statue but I'm sure they would prefer a safer street than a cosmetic change. YMMV.

 
Old 05-22-2017, 07:39 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,970,368 times
Reputation: 3796
George Washington was a traitor!

So why do we fly British flags again?
 
Old 05-22-2017, 07:55 AM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
1. NOPD are short staffed. If they are busy guarding monuments then they aren't arresting bad guys.
2. Crime should be the most important subject discussed. Once crime is lowered then I'm all for talking about other subjects. Priorities!
3. Blacks may not like a Confederate statue but I'm sure they would prefer a safer street than a cosmetic change. YMMV.
1) I didn't know they were short-staffed. Still, the corruption issue is still part of the crime problem.
2) Crime and the Confederate monuments need to be discussed separate of each other. I've said this before. Want to discuss crime, discuss it separate from this thread. The two are not connected.
3) Why not have both safer streets and those Confederate monstrosities taken down? You speak as if we can't have both. The only reason the crime issue is being brought up is to deflect from this subject of this thread. Want to discuss crime? Open up a thread about it. This thread is not the time or the place.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 07:56 AM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
George Washington was a traitor!

So why do we fly British flags again?
We don't. We fly USA flags. George Washington and Robert E. Lee cannot be compared. It is intellectually dishonest to do so.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 08:21 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,970,368 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
We don't. We fly USA flags. George Washington and Robert E. Lee cannot be compared. It is intellectually dishonest to do so.
Plenty of schools across America are called Churchill and fly British flags. Nobody criticizes this.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 09:17 AM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
Plenty of schools across America are called Churchill and fly British flags. Nobody criticizes this.
Can you prove that? I haven't heard of any school named for Sir Winston Churchill. By the way, Churchill didn't wage a war against the USA, Lee did that.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 09:43 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,793 posts, read 2,783,911 times
Reputation: 4920
Default Ah, the Motherland

Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
Plenty of schools across America are called Churchill and fly British flags. Nobody criticizes this.
Across the US? Well, sure. Churchill's mother was a buccaneer (see The History Chicks Gilded Age heiresses Archives - The History Chicks) - she was a US citizen. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Randolph_Churchill - she was a talented pianist, socialite, & very helpful to her first husband's early & Winston's careers. & she apparently cut a swathe through the circles she moved in - altogether a dangerous person.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Louisiana to Houston to Denver to NOVA
16,506 posts, read 26,193,039 times
Reputation: 13283
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
They were showing the site where the Jeff Davis Memorial used to stand and it is a derelict concrete pad and they already have graffiti on it. Great way to brand the city Mitch!

Lee Circle looks silly without a statue on top.

There is a crumbling brick wall where Beauregard statue used to be because when they removed the plaque it caused the cement base to crumble off.

In many ways now those keys spots in town look like most of the city, decrepit and nasty. If only Mitch pushed the 4 Seasons hotel as much as he pushed the monument removal we may actually have a decent remodeled WTC.

Oh well, the circus has finally left town and we can finally focus on the crime problem. Did you hear about the African American father who had both of his sons shot within a year by rival gangs? Can we talk about this?
They had graffiti on them before they were removed too.

No it doesn't, Lee was a small statue anyway. It barely looks any different.

The WTC project has been able to move forward for a couple months now.

Yes. What stopped you from talking about it before?
 
Old 05-22-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
814 posts, read 1,469,911 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
They were showing the site where the Jeff Davis Memorial used to stand and it is a derelict concrete pad and they already have graffiti on it. Great way to brand the city Mitch!

Lee Circle looks silly without a statue on top.

There is a crumbling brick wall where Beauregard statue used to be because when they removed the plaque it caused the cement base to crumble off.

In many ways now those keys spots in town look like most of the city, decrepit and nasty. If only Mitch pushed the 4 Seasons hotel as much as he pushed the monument removal we may actually have a decent remodeled WTC.

Oh well, the circus has finally left town and we can finally focus on the crime problem. Did you hear about the African American father who had both of his sons shot within a year by rival gangs? Can we talk about this?
Fight crime? The metropolitan crime commission just released a scathing report outlining how crime has worsened under the Mayor's leadership but don't worry, that's not a problem. I mean there are still more statues and streets to take down and rename, that come's first, got to devote the time, money, and resources to that first. Crime is happening a few blocks away? Nope, these eight police cars of our depleted police force have to stay and guard the statues.

Don't worry about that crumbling brick wall at the Beauregard pedestal, they put up a piece of plywood to cover it up, really improving the beauty of the city there. Hey, and if you miss the statues, you can just go look at them from the street sitting out in the open and rising above some chain linked fence in a city owned maintenance lot. Love that discreet and secure location.

Also what in the world is the point of removing a statue if you don't also rename the street that it is located on, a street that has the same name as the person the statue represented? A street name has much more daily attention than a statue, just kind of makes this whole process seem bizarre. Got to love the planning and execution of this whole charade.

Last edited by Jimbo_1; 05-22-2017 at 11:11 AM..
 
Old 05-22-2017, 10:49 AM
 
136 posts, read 167,021 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
1) I didn't know they were short-staffed. Still, the corruption issue is still part of the crime problem.
2) Crime and the Confederate monuments need to be discussed separate of each other. I've said this before. Want to discuss crime, discuss it separate from this thread. The two are not connected.
3) Why not have both safer streets and those Confederate monstrosities taken down? You speak as if we can't have both. The only reason the crime issue is being brought up is to deflect from this subject of this thread. Want to discuss crime? Open up a thread about it. This thread is not the time or the place.

1) That was definitely true at one time. In all honesty, right now they are perhaps one of the most transparent and scrutinized law enforcement agencies in the entire nation, if not the world. They are under the supervision of the DOJ, the Independent Police Monitor, a Federal Judge who has approximately 6-8 court appointed monitors watching their every move to insure compliance with a Consent Decree, and governed largely by said degree itself. Every officer assigned to interact with the public in an enforcement capacity is outfitted with no less than three cameras (a BWC/Body Worn Camera, In-Car/Dash Camera, and a "Tazer Cam" that activates anytime that activates any time the device is powered on.) I'm not sure what more oversight you could have or want. As it stands the multiple layers of oversight are actually part of the problem as now most of the rank and file have ABSOLUTELY no idea what the mission is because they are "serving to many "leaders". It has caused most of their functions to grind to a screeching halt due to the multiple layers of bureaucracy, instituted largely by lawyers who are institutionalized to believe that bureaucracy is a "good" thing. The only corruption at this point is in the fact that our current mayor has decided to try and do away with competitive Civil Service exams (you know the kind that were meant to assure women and minorities were not unfairly excluded) to select the upper echelons of the NOPD and instead be free to pick them himself in order to assure they are what he likes best, a bunch of "yes men" he is free to demote and marginalize the minute they disagree with him.


2) I agree completely; however they are both connected in terms of pulling from the city budget. The removal of those monuments was so **** poorly planned that it caused an inordinate amount of police and other city resources to be used. They all should have been removed simultaneously as opposed to being drug out over the course of several weeks, thus requiring valuable NOPD resources to be used to monitor protesters (on both sides of the issue) for several weeks. One would have to agree that those resources would have been better used targeting know criminals or conducting follow-up investigation(s) to violent crimes and identifying perpetrators, thus bringing closure to many victims. I'm sure it will surprise you, but the vast majority of the persons assigned to deal with the protesters and provide security at the monuments were pulled from the gang unit, street crimes, and investigative units. In a city with a large violent crime rate it is always imperative to utilize those resources as efficiently as possible.


3) We can, but it takes a forward thinking mayor who is interested in something more than his own press.


PS. I really had no feelings on the monuments one way or the other and was not bothered in the least that they were removed. I am bothered by the following


1) **** planning regarding the execution of the removal.
2) No real plan for what would replace the monuments at these significant civic spaces, just some spitballed BS after the fact. No plans, concept art, cost, anything. From an Urban Planning perspective it pisses me off, because it shows the above, **** poor planning and lack of attention to detail.
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