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Old 06-21-2017, 10:49 AM
 
136 posts, read 149,564 times
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As was mentioned earlier in the thread I would stay away from that area. Anything that is "up and coming" about the area is overly optimistic at best. I would look into Mid-City, Uptown, Broadmoor, or Gentilly.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:52 AM
 
136 posts, read 149,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Gentrification is never welcome.

According to whom and why? As far as I'm concerned it's GREAT. It increases the tax base, raises home values, and generally causes the areas gentrified to become safer (i.e. lowers the crime rate).
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Denver
15,808 posts, read 23,820,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream34 View Post
According to whom and why? As far as I'm concerned it's GREAT. It increases the tax base, raises home values, and generally causes the areas gentrified to become safer (i.e. lowers the crime rate).
According to the people who live there. I'm sure it's great to you because you've never lived in one I'm sure.

Why? Because it displaces people, it kills the whole reason why it's a charming neighborhood, and it only spreads poverty around, doesn't do anything to address the root causes.

Now the only people who can afford to live in the Bywater is New Yorkers.
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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In about 5-10 years St. Roch will be very desirable. The Rampart streetcar line runs right there and hopefully they'll clean up the section from Esplanade to Elysian Fields. Other than a few poboy shops and a Walgreens there isn't much.
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Denver
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It'll be just as white and expensive as the Bywater is lol.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Metairie, LA
1,097 posts, read 2,188,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
It'll be just as white and expensive as the Bywater is lol.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think there's enough of a driver on the lakeside of St. Claude after the first two blocks. Elysian Fields and Franklin would have to develop as "hip" commercial corridors, but I just don't see that ever happening. Even if it does, more affordable housing would be blocks away, not miles.

We're also talking about a very small area relative to the entire city. There are huge swaths of New Orleans that are not white and expensive.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Denver
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Originally Posted by rburnett View Post
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think there's enough of a driver on the lakeside of St. Claude after the first two blocks. Elysian Fields and Franklin would have to develop as "hip" commercial corridors, but I just don't see that ever happening. Even if it does, more affordable housing would be blocks away, not miles.

We're also talking about a very small area relative to the entire city. There are huge swaths of New Orleans that are not white and expensive.
After the St Claude streetcar is extended and, I think will come at some point, the Elysian Fields line is built I think it will bring that type of development. I mean if everything stays the same with the economy and national moving trends that is, because alot can change in the years coming.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:26 PM
 
136 posts, read 149,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
According to the people who live there. I'm sure it's great to you because you've never lived in one I'm sure.

Why? Because it displaces people, it kills the whole reason why it's a charming neighborhood, and it only spreads poverty around, doesn't do anything to address the root causes.

Now the only people who can afford to live in the Bywater is New Yorkers.

People get displaced all the time. I'm betting that the only folks who are getting displaced are renting, which puts them at the mercy of the landlord. I have a rental house and believe me if I find out that values have doubled or tripled and I can either a) rent said property for 3 times as much or b) sell said property for a huge profit, I'm probably doing that. It's my property, I can do with it as I please, just as you can with yours. Let me ask, if you were selling your home or renting out a property you owned would you be willing to take less (substantially) than market value? If your answer is no, then you are a hypocrite. Personally I remember when the Bywater and (to a lesser extent) the Marigny were crap holes and the average home sold for under 50K. I'll take high property values with less crime and more people wanting to invest in the area any day. And there are plenty of local folks who can afford to live in the Bywater, it's not my fault that there are a core group of bigoted folks who do not want them moving in just because they are white, gay, or affluent.
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
814 posts, read 1,362,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburnett View Post
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think there's enough of a driver on the lakeside of St. Claude after the first two blocks. Elysian Fields and Franklin would have to develop as "hip" commercial corridors, but I just don't see that ever happening. Even if it does, more affordable housing would be blocks away, not miles.

We're also talking about a very small area relative to the entire city. There are huge swaths of New Orleans that are not white and expensive.
I can see the area between St. Claude and Claiborne from Esplanade to Poland Avenue being gentrified in the next 10 years, and also areas like around St. Roch Park, if the market stays the same and St. Claude Avenue continues to improve. Then random areas beyond Claiborne will be the new frontier. The few blocks off St. Claude and around St. Roch Avenue are seemingly already moving into the next stages of gentrification, away from the gutter punks and struggling artist types and into the yuppie, hipster types, that can be seen in house prices, flippers are targeting that area and shooting for $300,000-$400,000+.

But St. Roch as a whole is not really comparable to the Bywater, the Bywater was a much more self contained area that never really saw the worst of white flight, crime, and urban blight like the lakeside of St. Claude, as well as the flooding of Katrina. That whole swath lakeside of St. Claude is huge and has a bad reputation and will take forever, if ever, to totally gentrify and displace all poorer people. People forget that gentrification is a long process, the Bywater started seeing an influx of new people and renovations in the 1990s and early 2000s and to this day it can be argued that it is not fully gentrified, it still has a grungy/gritty feel to it in parts, though that is somewhat on purpose.

------------------------------------------------

As for gentrification in general in New Orleans, it is sad that it has to involve the displacing of whole populations that have lived in these neighborhoods for decades, but something has to be done to improve these neighborhoods and upwardly mobile people want to live in historic areas that they can afford. Nobody likes to see the decay, rotting historic homes, closed businesses, crime problems, blighted lots, etc. that characterize a lot of these areas. Its sad that seemingly the only way to solve those problems is gentrification. Neighborhoods and cities go through cycles and change, these same neighborhood used to be white and working/middle class, now they are changing again. Similarly there are cases in the city where average middle class neighborhoods are transitioning into more upper middle class and upper class areas, it's all gentrification. Cities and their historic cores are transitioning into centers for the young and successful (and old and wealthy), after decades of disinvestment, a similar process is taking place across America and Europe, cores are improving while many suburbs are increasingly becoming home to the regions poor. Its both good and bad, I love seeing all the old homes being restored and new construction, but hate seeing people displaced and wish rent was still $400 a month for half a double in a decently good neighborhood, but hey.
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Denver
15,808 posts, read 23,820,459 times
Reputation: 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream34 View Post
People get displaced all the time. I'm betting that the only folks who are getting displaced are renting, which puts them at the mercy of the landlord. I have a rental house and believe me if I find out that values have doubled or tripled and I can either a) rent said property for 3 times as much or b) sell said property for a huge profit, I'm probably doing that. It's my property, I can do with it as I please, just as you can with yours. Let me ask, if you were selling your home or renting out a property you owned would you be willing to take less (substantially) than market value? If your answer is no, then you are a hypocrite. Personally I remember when the Bywater and (to a lesser extent) the Marigny were crap holes and the average home sold for under 50K. I'll take high property values with less crime and more people wanting to invest in the area any day. And there are plenty of local folks who can afford to live in the Bywater, it's not my fault that there are a core group of bigoted folks who do not want them moving in just because they are white, gay, or affluent.
I'm not worried about renters as much as home owners who can't afford the increase in property taxes.
I don't blame people for making those financial decisions. I would sell in that case. My parents are renting a home and have flipped some properties in Baton Rouge and I'm considering that as well. But it's more of an issue with capitalism as opposed to, what I may have implied, a vindictive act to "clean up" the neighborhood.
I definitely don't think bigot is the right term for people who want to preserve the culture of their neighborhood and keep prices where people who work in the city can live there.
Yeah I remember when the Katrina kids came.to school and said they were from the Bywater. All lower income black kids. Now it's Portland rejects and trust fund babies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
------------------------------------------------

As for gentrification in general in New Orleans, it is sad that it has to involve the displacing of whole populations that have lived in these neighborhoods for decades, but something has to be done to improve these neighborhoods and upwardly mobile people want to live in historic areas that they can afford. Nobody likes to see the decay, rotting historic homes, closed businesses, crime problems, blighted lots, etc. that characterize a lot of these areas. Its sad that seemingly the only way to solve those problems is gentrification. Neighborhoods and cities go through cycles and change, these same neighborhood used to be white and working/middle class, now they are changing again. Similarly there are cases in the city where average middle class neighborhoods are transitioning into more upper middle class and upper class areas, it's all gentrification. Cities and their historic cores are transitioning into centers for the young and successful (and old and wealthy), after decades of disinvestment, a similar process is taking place across America and Europe, cores are improving while many suburbs are increasingly becoming home to the regions poor. Its both good and bad, I love seeing all the old homes being restored and new construction, but hate seeing people displaced and wish rent was still $400 a month for half a double in a decently good neighborhood, but hey.
I find this to be misinformed and slightly insulting. History tells the story of why black neighborhoods are full of crime and poverty. White flight, redlining, segregation, inadequate social programs, etc are all well documented but unfortunately not taught well. The idea that people just accept poverty and don't want better themselves is the insulting part. As if there are jobs galore in New Orleans that pay rent. As if people would rather go to prison rather than work a well paying job.
Redevelopment in downtown neighborhoods like the Warehouse district is not gentrification, it displaced no one. Same goes for Baton Rouge. It's downtown is loads better than what it used to be, but no one was displaced.
Europe is much different than the US when it comes to demographics, in cities like Paris and London, correct me if I'm wrong but poor minorities have always been in the suburbs. They also don't have the history of slavery and Jim Crow laws nor the population of minorities.
The scenario is true for every former European colony: Brazil and natives and blacks, South Africa and blacks, Australia and Aborigines, New Zealand and Maori, Canada and natives, Puerto Rico and Taino, Colombia and Taino and blacks, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia and minority rule, etc. That can go on for days. So it's not the people who just love living in squalor but the system of oppression setup by most if not all European colonies against the native or former slave population.
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