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Old 06-23-2017, 09:08 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
814 posts, read 1,366,443 times
Reputation: 676

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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I'm not worried about renters as much as home owners who can't afford the increase in property taxes.
I don't blame people for making those financial decisions. I would sell in that case. My parents are renting a home and have flipped some properties in Baton Rouge and I'm considering that as well. But it's more of an issue with capitalism as opposed to, what I may have implied, a vindictive act to "clean up" the neighborhood.
I definitely don't think bigot is the right term for people who want to preserve the culture of their neighborhood and keep prices where people who work in the city can live there.
Yeah I remember when the Katrina kids came.to school and said they were from the Bywater. All lower income black kids. Now it's Portland rejects and trust fund babies.
Most of these neighborhoods are rentals, so you should be worried about them, and they are the most vulnerable. As for home owners and property taxes, with age freezes, homestead exemptions, undervaluing, etc. it takes a while before the taxes become too much to bare. Plus, most houses in these old neighborhoods are doubles and such, allowing homeowners to make some money through renting. Also
the Bywater was about half white on the eve of Katrina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I find this to be misinformed and slightly insulting. History tells the story of why black neighborhoods are full of crime and poverty. White flight, redlining, segregation, inadequate social programs, etc are all well documented but unfortunately not taught well. The idea that people just accept poverty and don't want better themselves is the insulting part. As if there are jobs galore in New Orleans that pay rent. As if people would rather go to prison rather than work a well paying job.
Redevelopment in downtown neighborhoods like the Warehouse district is not gentrification, it displaced no one. Same goes for Baton Rouge. It's downtown is loads better than what it used to be, but no one was displaced.
Don't really know how you found that insulting or misinformed. I never made any of these points, nor tried to. Of course there are underlining issues at play which sadly are never addressed.
With rising rents and the closing of cheap motels, you can make the argument that people have been gentrified out of the Warehouse District.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Europe is much different than the US when it comes to demographics, in cities like Paris and London, correct me if I'm wrong but poor minorities have always been in the suburbs. They also don't have the history of slavery and Jim Crow laws nor the population of minorities.
The scenario is true for every former European colony: Brazil and natives and blacks, South Africa and blacks, Australia and Aborigines, New Zealand and Maori, Canada and natives, Puerto Rico and Taino, Colombia and Taino and blacks, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia and minority rule, etc. That can go on for days. So it's not the people who just love living in squalor but the system of oppression setup by most if not all European colonies against the native or former slave population.
Those tower blocks that house poor people that are on the outskirts of European cities did not exist a few decades ago, it is especially evident in some of the inner neighborhoods of London, the economic changes taking place. And there are concentrations of minorities in these areas, like Muslims in France and Blacks in England. But, yes, Europe made that shift earlier on than America. Cities in Europe never emptied out like they did in America. My only point is it is a process that is happening all over and it can be argued that it is a natural, normal progression of a city.

You kind of talk of this problem of gentrification as if you are not somehow part of it. You are a newly arrived young person that is not poor who moved to the city into a struggling poorer area (Central City, right?) that is seeing gentrification. You are not poor, not from the neighborhood or city, engaged in some artistic profession (photography right? or just a hobby?). I get your whole moral responsibility to get the word out and all but you are like the poster boy for gentrification. You are part of the displacement, rents were too much in other neighborhoods, likely? It doesn't matter that you are black, gentrification is originally class related that has morphed into race. I can make that case that white middle class and working class neighborhoods are also seeing gentrification. It is all about the housing market and where people of various backgrounds can afford to live. Before in New Orleans there weren't these pressures, now with recent arrivals (cough, cough) and the back to the city movement, prices in established areas went up and people need an affordable place to live, so they try the area on the other side of street. It's a complicated issue, obviously, but it is not solely race based.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Denver
15,825 posts, read 23,890,830 times
Reputation: 11839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
Most of these neighborhoods are rentals, so you should be worried about them, and they are the most vulnerable. As for home owners and property taxes, with age freezes, homestead exemptions, undervaluing, etc. it takes a while before the taxes become too much to bare. Plus, most houses in these old neighborhoods are doubles and such, allowing homeowners to make some money through renting. Also
the Bywater was about half white on the eve of Katrina.



Don't really know how you found that insulting or misinformed. I never made any of these points, nor tried to. Of course there are underlining issues at play which sadly are never addressed.
With rising rents and the closing of cheap motels, you can make the argument that people have been gentrified out of the Warehouse District.



Those tower blocks that house poor people that are on the outskirts of European cities did not exist a few decades ago, it is especially evident in some of the inner neighborhoods of London, the economic changes taking place. And there are concentrations of minorities in these areas, like Muslims in France and Blacks in England. But, yes, Europe made that shift earlier on than America. Cities in Europe never emptied out like they did in America. My only point is it is a process that is happening all over and it can be argued that it is a natural, normal progression of a city.

You kind of talk of this problem of gentrification as if you are not somehow part of it. You are a newly arrived young person that is not poor who moved to the city into a struggling poorer area (Central City, right?) that is seeing gentrification. You are not poor, not from the neighborhood or city, engaged in some artistic profession (photography right? or just a hobby?). I get your whole moral responsibility to get the word out and all but you are like the poster boy for gentrification. You are part of the displacement, rents were too much in other neighborhoods, likely? It doesn't matter that you are black, gentrification is originally class related that has morphed into race. I can make that case that white middle class and working class neighborhoods are also seeing gentrification. It is all about the housing market and where people of various backgrounds can afford to live. Before in New Orleans there weren't these pressures, now with recent arrivals (cough, cough) and the back to the city movement, prices in established areas went up and people need an affordable place to live, so they try the area on the other side of street. It's a complicated issue, obviously, but it is not solely race based.
I forgot how many long term renters there are. I'm used to more ownership. Had any of those measures been put into place? I don't remember hearing anything about them and it would be interesting to see how popular they would be. Even if it takes a while, it puts a greater stress on the people living there and they eventually will be priced out.

I think you said something about the people in those neighborhoods are lazy or something.

Was Europe a racially diverse place before France and England welcomed their colonies citizens? They had a much different history and laws. I don't think we have had enough time pass in history to suggest that gentrification is a natural process. People haven't been living in cities in America en masse for long enough time, at least in my opinion. What other time have people in a poor neighborhood be priced out due to a sudden rise in desirability?

I don't consider myself a gentrifier, go figure, because I consider myself a local, and I think being black plays a huge part of it. Technically I live in Central City but I'm two blocks from St. Charles, right in between the Garden District and CC. My main problem with gentrification is two things, the native population is priced out, and the population that replaces them wipes the neighborhood clean from what made it attractive in the first place. While I'm not native to the city, I'm accustomed to everything Nola, won't complain about parking during Mardi Gras, won't try to stop the second line on my street because they are too loud, not afraid to run to Red Zone before they close at midnight, not afraid of every black or Latino walking down the street, I'm not trying to"improve" something because it works better back home, I'm not someone hoping that the whole neighborhood moves out and is replaced by yuppies, etc. If that makes me no better than the others then that's fine, but I'll still keep advocating for economic mobility for the poor in New Orleans over gentrification.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:20 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
814 posts, read 1,366,443 times
Reputation: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I forgot how many long term renters there are. I'm used to more ownership. Had any of those measures been put into place? I don't remember hearing anything about them and it would be interesting to see how popular they would be. Even if it takes a while, it puts a greater stress on the people living there and they eventually will be priced out.
Those are all automatic programs that automatically get applied to your house that you live, some of the perks of being a homeowner, all get homestead exemptions and if you are elderly you get an age freeze on increased valuation, but I'm no expert. Getting priced out would be more their choice if they own the home, probably coming down to the decision "I think I pay too much in taxes, I'm moving to Marrero, I can sale my house for five times what I originally paid and buy a cheaper place." They might eventually decide to sell but they know they are going to make some money, a lot more than if there neighborhood had never changed, it's not all bad, and is a lot better than renters options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I think you said something about the people in those neighborhoods are lazy or something.
No, I did not say that or try to imply that. I try not to say outright inciting things like that that have obvious connotations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Was Europe a racially diverse place before France and England welcomed their colonies citizens? They had a much different history and laws. I don't think we have had enough time pass in history to suggest that gentrification is a natural process. People haven't been living in cities in America en masse for long enough time, at least in my opinion. What other time have people in a poor neighborhood be priced out due to a sudden rise in desirability?
Racially diverse?, not really. That was not really my point, especially since the process of gentrification is more class based and not race based; just that it is happening all over. Historically, in mid-1800s in Paris, France they had a whole program of pushing out the poor and redeveloping the city with fancy new architecture for the wealthy; government sanctioned gentrification; created all the Haussmann buildings that define Paris today. The French Quarter in New Orleans, declined around 1900 and was packed with Sicilian immigrants, then in 1920s artists moved in, then began steady climb to state it is in now with most normal citizens having been pushed out by the 1980s. There was the Five Points section of Manhattan, slum clearance that began in 1830s. I'm sure there are even older cases out there. If decline is natural, why would rebirth and regeneration also not be natural, it's all caused by supply and demand in the end. Cities are in constant fluctuation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I don't consider myself a gentrifier, go figure, because I consider myself a local, and I think being black plays a huge part of it. Technically I live in Central City but I'm two blocks from St. Charles, right in between the Garden District and CC. My main problem with gentrification is two things, the native population is priced out, and the population that replaces them wipes the neighborhood clean from what made it attractive in the first place. While I'm not native to the city, I'm accustomed to everything Nola, won't complain about parking during Mardi Gras, won't try to stop the second line on my street because they are too loud, not afraid to run to Red Zone before they close at midnight, not afraid of every black or Latino walking down the street, I'm not trying to"improve" something because it works better back home, I'm not someone hoping that the whole neighborhood moves out and is replaced by yuppies, etc. If that makes me no better than the others then that's fine, but I'll still keep advocating for economic mobility for the poor in New Orleans over gentrification.
That sounds like your own personal prerogative, I'm sure the dude on a double decker bike with gadges in his ear and short-shorts on cruising on St. Roch Avenue thinks he is a local and not a gentrifier too, lol. He may be black even. You can be local and a gentrifier, if I bought a house or rented in Central City, I'm sure I would be thought of as a gentrifier. It almost seems like you have more a problem with the stereotypes applied to gentrifiers than the actual process, the people you describe are more yuppie types, who tend to be one of the final stages of gentrification. I'll agree, you do seem better than some of these people, some of the crap they do makes me want to vomit in annoyance but most of these people are pretty normal and flexible to new things (albeit maybe culturally bland). Gentrification has its positives and negatives, I just think in the long haul, its whats best for the city, but it of course has its is toll.

You've probably read this. Been a while since I have but it's quite interesting. Richard Campanella writes good stuff.
Gentrification and its Discontents: Notes from New Orleans | Newgeography.com

Last edited by Jimbo_1; 06-28-2017 at 04:30 PM..
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