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Old 05-01-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, LA
245 posts, read 416,921 times
Reputation: 158

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiten
The oil slick affects all of us.

Here is a great article from USNews & World Report about a public high school in New Orleans: The High School That Beat Katrina - US News and World Report Does it not make you proud and hopeful of our people that we had the nation's 27th highest ranked school (out of over 21,000) on this illustrious list despite the calamity of Katrina?

The deeper story is about how the people of New Orleans are rebuilding not just from the aftermath of Katrina, but from the long decline of the city itself.

Running farther and farther away looking back only to point and wag fingers doesn't help anyone.
I think BFHS is a poor example for any generalizations regarding the New Orleans public school system. While it is an exemplary school, especially when viewed relative to any other local public funded choices, it isn't an appropriate flag to wave to the vast majority of potential immigrants. A realistic expectation is that the majority, possibly the over-whelming majority, of new-comers have children that aren't exactly BFHS material. A school such as BF is aimed primarily toward children whose academic prowess falls into the far right side of the bell curve. Most children, those of most new-comers, will not fall within that portion of the curve. The truth is that most children will fall into the middle region of the curve. That portion, in my humble opinion, is poorly served by the remaining choices within the New Orleans public school system.

However, if you could site an example of a better choice, I'd be interested to read about it.

Side note: I generally enjoy your posts. However, I've noticed a tendency on your part, in this thread, to rely on appeals to authority rather than constructing your own logical arguments. I'm sure you have a reasonable argument to make for your perspective. But, simply referring your audience to suggested readings is poor form for proving a point. For example, I'll offer quotes from your article from US News below to support my own arguments above:

Quote:
Right now, Franklin has 562 students enrolled and could take on up to 700, principal and CEO Timothy Rusnak says, adding that the school's criteria for admission is based on a numerical matrix. If an applicants' grade point average and standardized test scores meet the numerical criteria, then there is a place for the student at Franklin, Rusnak says.

...

Franklin's student body differs starkly in its racial composition from the rest of the city's public school system, where 90 percent of the students are African-American. One third of Franklin's students are white, one third are black, and one third are of Asian descent.
New-comers to the New Orleans area have a valid reason to be concerned about the available options for education. Many can't afford private schools. Others, choose public options even when finances aren't an obstacle. While some have children that could earn a place at a charter school, most don't. For those, New Orleans seemingly holds little promise. Thoughts?
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, LA
245 posts, read 416,921 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustaduke View Post
I could tell you some stores about BF that would knock you socks off.


busta
Do tell....
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 6,432,540 times
Reputation: 3629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orestes View Post
Do tell....
No freakin way, even if I knew ya.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, LA
245 posts, read 416,921 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustaduke View Post
No freakin way, even if I knew ya.


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Old 05-01-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, LA
245 posts, read 416,921 times
Reputation: 158
Oh, and more to the topic. I personally never experienced any hisses toward people that claim "Meh-tree" as home either.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:25 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
42 posts, read 144,676 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orestes View Post
I think BFHS is a poor example for any generalizations regarding the New Orleans public school system. While it is an exemplary school, especially when viewed relative to any other local public funded choices, it isn't an appropriate flag to wave to the vast majority of potential immigrants. A realistic expectation is that the majority, possibly the over-whelming majority, of new-comers have children that aren't exactly BFHS material. A school such as BF is aimed primarily toward children whose academic prowess falls into the far right side of the bell curve. Most children, those of most new-comers, will not fall within that portion of the curve. The truth is that most children will fall into the middle region of the curve. That portion, in my humble opinion, is poorly served by the remaining choices within the New Orleans public school system.

However, if you could site an example of a better choice, I'd be interested to read about it.

Side note: I generally enjoy your posts. However, I've noticed a tendency on your part, in this thread, to rely on appeals to authority rather than constructing your own logical arguments. I'm sure you have a reasonable argument to make for your perspective. But, simply referring your audience to suggested readings is poor form for proving a point. For example, I'll offer quotes from your article from US News below to support my own arguments above:

New-comers to the New Orleans area have a valid reason to be concerned about the available options for education. Many can't afford private schools. Others, choose public options even when finances aren't an obstacle. While some have children that could earn a place at a charter school, most don't. For those, New Orleans seemingly holds little promise. Thoughts?
Yes, Ben Franklin isn't fully representative of public schools in New Orleans. I didn't intend for it to be taken that way. The point to white-flighters like the one who called the schools here a "JOKE" is that the public high schools that have consistently ranked highest in the state (BFHS, Lusher) are in New Orleans -- and they far exceed the performance of any in Metairie or the Northshore. BFHS is an exception not just in New Orleans, but the entire state & indeed the whole country, and bearing in mind that most of its students are products of the N.O. public school system through and through, it roundly disproves the notion that the best and the brightest vacated New Orleans. That's all.

Regarding the appeal to authority, as I admitted earlier the topic of race and education is very complicated. It's our most intractable domestic issue, as tough a nut to crack as peace in the Middle East, and what has taken experts thousands of articles, studies, and books to try to explain can't be condensed into a few pithy sentences relevant to this thread without investing a great deal of effort and patience. The topic also evokes visceral reactions, and in an anonymous forum like this one, where rational discussions often dissolve into emotional exchanges, you really have to gauge the cost-benefit...

I do appreciate your being civil, and I often enjoy your posts as well.
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:44 PM
 
194 posts, read 495,373 times
Reputation: 174
I have no input on the schools or the "origin of the suburbs" theory. Also, some people like suburbs and I ain't one of them, so there's my disclaimer. If I couldn't live in the actual city of New Orleans, I would move to Mandeville.

To me Metairie is, to use an old Southern expression, 'as ugly as homemade sin'. I would characterize Gwinnett County, which is part of metro Atlanta, the same way. It's strip malls, subdivisions, gas stations, and all around "sprawl". The only things inoffensive to the eye, in my opinion, are the homogenous, cookie-cutter subdivisions, and those are offensive to the soul. (However, I have not seen "Old Metairie" yet, so hopefully that has some real character). Again, this is my opinion.

I prefer to live inside a vibrant city OR out in the middle of nowhere. Mediocrity is unacceptable. Clearly, many people disagree with me on that, and I wish them well in the suburbs or wherever. Different strokes for different folks...
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Baton Rouge
1,734 posts, read 5,190,338 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiten View Post
The point to white-flighters like the one who called the schools here a "JOKE" is that the public high schools that have consistently ranked highest in the state (BFHS, Lusher) are in New Orleans -- and they far exceed the performance of any in Metairie or the Northshore. BFHS is an exception not just in New Orleans, but the entire state & indeed the whole country, and bearing in mind that most of its students are products of the N.O. public school system through and through, it roundly disproves the notion that the best and the brightest vacated New Orleans.
Lusher and BF are charter schools, Aiten. They are not run nearly the same as the vast majority of public schools in New Orleans and they are highly selective.

If you wanted to say that the CHARTER schools are good then I would give you that. I don't think anyone here ever meant to say that there was nobody smart in New Orleans. I know that I acknowledged the elite private schools. And I really hope you weren't referring to me as a white flighter because that couldn't be farther from the truth. I live in the heart of Baton Rouge--another city with crap public schools but great MAGNET schools.
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 9,415,344 times
Reputation: 1418
Actually NOPS really isn't the joke, it's RSD. NOPS has its own share of Charter schools, including BF and Lusher if I'm not mistaken.
NOPS' district score was only 6 points under Jefferson Parish last year, I believe. Still JP isn't the best, but neither is education in LA as a whole.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
310 posts, read 776,282 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepointykitty View Post
I have no input on the schools or the "origin of the suburbs" theory. Also, some people like suburbs and I ain't one of them, so there's my disclaimer. If I couldn't live in the actual city of New Orleans, I would move to Mandeville.

To me Metairie is, to use an old Southern expression, 'as ugly as homemade sin'. I would characterize Gwinnett County, which is part of metro Atlanta, the same way. It's strip malls, subdivisions, gas stations, and all around "sprawl". The only things inoffensive to the eye, in my opinion, are the homogenous, cookie-cutter subdivisions, and those are offensive to the soul. (However, I have not seen "Old Metairie" yet, so hopefully that has some real character). Again, this is my opinion.

I prefer to live inside a vibrant city OR out in the middle of nowhere. Mediocrity is unacceptable. Clearly, many people disagree with me on that, and I wish them well in the suburbs or wherever. Different strokes for different folks...
pointykitty, I like your attitude on New Orleans and reading your posts. But this, to me, was mean and elitist. When we moved here, we couldn't afford a dang thing within the city. Real estate after Katrina was so highly inflated and we had $250K to spend on a house. We can't live in a 1000 sq ft shotgun, so that was way out of the picture (it's about all that was in our price range a the time). I can't say I'm in love with living in a suburb but it's hurtful to see someone so pro-New Orleans shoot down a large area. I work in the CDB and my husband works in Luling so that works a bit better too. I understand it's not your thing, and no, it doesn't have much charm, heck, it's urban sprawl, nothing more, but we make up a large part of the New Orleans "area" (I'm not saying we're New Orleans).

I'm so sorry you feel this way, but some people really have no choice. I'm sorry we're an embarrassment to the area.
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