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I've been helping a friend who is a low-income mother of two young girls try to reverse two appeals she made for Housing Connect lotteries where her income was miscalculated to be much higher than she actually earned. In both cases, her appeals were denied, although we aren't sure why. I have seen on this forum that other people have been able to successfully appeal an income miscalculation and we wondered if there was any advice that could be offered. Or else if there are other people who have been denied because their income was miscalculated and if this is a common problem.
My friend's situation is pretty straightforward. She receives a W-2 Salary, has a municipal worker preference as a Campus Peace Officer, and doesn't receive child support or have any other source of income. She occasionally works overtime, which is what we think caused the problem in 2016 when she was first denied. That was a building in Manhattan and her log number was 7xx. The marketing agent estimated her income based on the YTD on her employment verification form at almost 15% higher than she eventually made, but since it was July when she made the appeal, she didn't have her W-2 yet and couldn't prove it wrong.
For the second denial, she had qualified with a CB and municipal preference for a building in Brooklyn and had a log number of 1xxx. This time the marketing agent estimated her income at nearly 40% higher than what she made according to her W-2. This time, there was a one-time retroactive payment for back pay as part of a class action lawsuit for gender discrimination brought by her union. She appealed based on this payment being "sporadic" according to the marketing handbook, but it was denied. This appeal was last November, so again she didn't have her W-2.
The Manhattan building was financed through the state housing authority and we can't find any agency to which to make an appeal. For the Brooklyn building, we appealed to the HPD Compliance office, and she just heard back that HPD will ask that the marketing to "possibly reconsider" its decision, but all the CB preferences have already been filled and so she will be likely be put on a waiting list. There are only 6 units that are the size she needs and the building was just filled. We are not hopeful that anyone will move out anytime soon.
If you have any advice or have also had your application denied because your income was miscalculated, I'd appreciate hearing from you. I should add that I'm helping my friend because she's a single mom and it's a lot of work, as you all know, to go through this process. But I'm also a journalist who writes about inequailty and I'm interested in understanding this process better.
I've been helping a friend who is a low-income mother of two young girls try to reverse two appeals she made for Housing Connect lotteries where her income was miscalculated to be much higher than she actually earned. In both cases, her appeals were denied, although we aren't sure why. I have seen on this forum that other people have been able to successfully appeal an income miscalculation and we wondered if there was any advice that could be offered. Or else if there are other people who have been denied because their income was miscalculated and if this is a common problem.
My friend's situation is pretty straightforward. She receives a W-2 Salary, has a municipal worker preference as a Campus Peace Officer, and doesn't receive child support or have any other source of income. She occasionally works overtime, which is what we think caused the problem in 2016 when she was first denied. That was a building in Manhattan and her log number was 7xx. The marketing agent estimated her income based on the YTD on her employment verification form at almost 15% higher than she eventually made, but since it was July when she made the appeal, she didn't have her W-2 yet and couldn't prove it wrong.
For the second denial, she had qualified with a CB and municipal preference for a building in Brooklyn and had a log number of 1xxx. This time the marketing agent estimated her income at nearly 40% higher than what she made according to her W-2. This time, there was a one-time retroactive payment for back pay as part of a class action lawsuit for gender discrimination brought by her union. She appealed based on this payment being "sporadic" according to the marketing handbook, but it was denied. This appeal was last November, so again she didn't have her W-2.
The Manhattan building was financed through the state housing authority and we can't find any agency to which to make an appeal. For the Brooklyn building, we appealed to the HPD Compliance office, and she just heard back that HPD will ask that the marketing to "possibly reconsider" its decision, but all the CB preferences have already been filled and so she will be likely be put on a waiting list. There are only 6 units that are the size she needs and the building was just filled. We are not hopeful that anyone will move out anytime soon.
If you have any advice or have also had your application denied because your income was miscalculated, I'd appreciate hearing from you. I should add that I'm helping my friend because she's a single mom and it's a lot of work, as you all know, to go through this process. But I'm also a journalist who writes about inequailty and I'm interested in understanding this process better.
It's really probably too late to do anything about this. These units fill up quickly because of the sheer number of applicants, and you're only allotted 10 business days to appeal a rejection by the developer and then 5 business days to appeal further to HPD if the appeal to the developer is denied.
Anyway, regarding the first denial, unfortunately, that's just how they do it. They calculate income multiple ways and take the highest calculation. One of the ways they calculate income is by projecting the year-to-date for a full year, and if it's over the limit, it's tough luck, even if the overtime is not expected to repeat. Overtime is very bad in these lotteries.
The second one is really unfortunate because one-time payments are not supposed to be counted as income. Generally, all you need to do is prepare a notarized affidavit, preferably with evidence as to the source of the payment, indicating that it will not recur. But again, it's really too late to do anything a this point.
Thanks very much for this reply. I understand that the developers have to use some sort of method to calculate income, but the projections are so much higher than what she actually made. If overtime hurts applicants, that disqualifies a huge class of essential workers. Do you know if there is any organized effort to try to get the rules changed? I'd like to help. The process, from my limited vantage point, also seems to require so much time, research and savviness that it penalizes the very people who need it most -- the working poor.
As for my friend, we feel like an injustice has been done, especially in the case of the one time payment, since she appealed on those grounds and was denied. So we can't just give up. It didn't say anything in the letter denying her appeal about the next step of appealing to HPD so she didn't know to do that. She feels that there is now a black mark against her, which will hurt her chances going forward. I know that's not logical, but having thrown myself into this process for the last six weeks, I really understand why she feels this way.
I thought about appealing through the Public Advocate's office. My friend lives in Brooklyn CB2 and the large wave of affordable housing properties seem to have passed. I'm not aware of any other buildings on the horizon.
Thanks very much for this reply. I understand that the developers have to use some sort of method to calculate income, but the projections are so much higher than what she actually made. If overtime hurts applicants, that disqualifies a huge class of essential workers. Do you know if there is any organized effort to try to get the rules changed? I'd like to help. The process, from my limited vantage point, also seems to require so much time, research and savviness that it penalizes the very people who need it most -- the working poor.
As for my friend, we feel like an injustice has been done, especially in the case of the one time payment, since she appealed on those grounds and was denied. So we can't just give up. It didn't say anything in the letter denying her appeal about the next step of appealing to HPD so she didn't know to do that. She feels that there is now a black mark against her, which will hurt her chances going forward. I know that's not logical, but having thrown myself into this process for the last six weeks, I really understand why she feels this way.
I thought about appealing through the Public Advocate's office. My friend lives in Brooklyn CB2 and the large wave of affordable housing properties seem to have passed. I'm not aware of any other buildings on the horizon.
I'm not ready to give up yet.
The income calculations are mandated federally, by the Dept of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), so there's really no way to change them at a city level. They follow HUD Handbook 4350.3 for calculating income: https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/43503C5HSGH.PDF
Also, CB preferences are being phased out. The current thought is that CB preferences institutionalize racially segregated neighborhoods. Developments started after a certain date will no longer have CB preferences: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/170729923
There is no "black mark" against her for being disqualified twice; people apply for dozens of these lotteries and get disqualified for little things and big things. You just have to keep trying, but it helps to know the rules of the game when playing these lotteries in order to keep your application profile "in compliance". You're right that the process rewards those who are savvy at knowing the guidelines. You gotta know the rules of the game in order to game the system. For example, people knowingly turn down overtime assignments if they know you're going to be reporting income for an upcoming lottery. They defer bonuses and raises. But that's the nature of any bureaucratic city program.
Unfortunately, due to the sheer number of applicants, the developers, HPD, and the city advocate's office is not able to cater to extenuating circumstances surrounding applicants. The developers and HPD just trudge through tons of applicants and approve those who have the least complicated situations in order to keep themselves in compliance with federal regulations. I've seen people who were perfectly qualified, but who had a slight blip on their application get disqualified (for example, a random cash deposit they weren't able to explain, or a switch from 1099 to W2 income, or a one-time bonus that the city had to assume would recur).
The income calculations are mandated federally, by the Dept of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), so there's really no way to change them at a city level. They follow HUD Handbook 4350.3 for calculating income: https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/43503C5HSGH.PDF
Also, CB preferences are being phased out. The current thought is that CB preferences institutionalize racially segregated neighborhoods. Developments started after a certain date will no longer have CB preferences: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/170729923
There is no "black mark" against her for being disqualified twice; people apply for dozens of these lotteries and get disqualified for little things and big things. You just have to keep trying, but it helps to know the rules of the game when playing these lotteries in order to keep your application profile "in compliance". You're right that the process rewards those who are savvy at knowing the guidelines. You gotta know the rules of the game in order to game the system. For example, people knowingly turn down overtime assignments if they know you're going to be reporting income for an upcoming lottery. They defer bonuses and raises. But that's the nature of any bureaucratic city program.
Unfortunately, due to the sheer number of applicants, the developers, HPD, and the city advocate's office is not able to cater to extenuating circumstances surrounding applicants. The developers and HPD just trudge through tons of applicants and approve those who have the least complicated situations in order to keep themselves in compliance with federal regulations. I've seen people who were perfectly qualified, but who had a slight blip on their application get disqualified (for example, a random cash deposit they weren't able to explain, or a switch from 1099 to W2 income, or a one-time bonus that the city had to assume would recur).
Because I keep reading about people who have successfully appealed miscalculations of income, it gives me hope that there is some discretion built into the system. That is, if you appeal in the proper window of time.
Are you aware of any data that records the demographics of the people who are successful in securing affordable housing? I know there is no shortage of applicants and that many most go to low income people, but anecdotally, the people I know who have gotten them tend to be pretty well-educated and come from fairly privileged backgrounds and just aren't making a lot of money for one reason or another.
I looked at some of your other postings and you are such a resource of knowledge. I hope you managed to secure one yourself!
Because I keep reading about people who have successfully appealed miscalculations of income, it gives me hope that there is some discretion built into the system. That is, if you appeal in the proper window of time.
Are you aware of any data that records the demographics of the people who are successful in securing affordable housing? I know there is no shortage of applicants and that many most go to low income people, but anecdotally, the people I know who have gotten them tend to be pretty well-educated and come from fairly privileged backgrounds and just aren't making a lot of money for one reason or another.
I looked at some of your other postings and you are such a resource of knowledge. I hope you managed to secure one yourself!
Thanks for the links. Jeez, that's 139 pages of regulations that a person needs to wade through if she's going to be savvy enough to game the system.
That article in DNAInfo was very interesting. Thank you. I'd love to know the educational attainment levels of those affordable housing residents. My friend is very smart and has informed herself about much of this process, but she's not college educated and doesn't have a computer. And she works at night and is raising two kids on her own. It seems unreasonable to me to expect people to read through 139 pages of regulation to improve their chances of being hopeful.
I understand that the sheer volume of the applications makes it hard to personalize the process, but shouldn't the incredibly high number of disqualified applicants signal a problem in the system. I know I'm not saying anything that probably hasn't already been said here many times before, but I'm curious to know if there are any significant efforts underway to influence the policy and make it more equitable.
She doesn't have to read everything in the handbook. If she just reads the income section, that will be enough. She can read select sections just to get through the application. While the guidelines can't be changed on a city level per se, their interpretation can (for instance, way overestimating her income because of the occasional OT--the OT could be looked at for what it was--occasional). That's why I don't believe it hurts to draw in the public advocate or mayor's office, if you or she has the energy for that. Maybe get a state senator/assembly person, city council member involved, if either of you has the will or energy. There is some slim hope for her on the wait list, because someone could get kicked out, or in the end not take a unit that's been assigned, etc. It's not hopeless, but she should keep applying to all the lotteries.
Thanks for the links. Jeez, that's 139 pages of regulations that a person needs to wade through if she's going to be savvy enough to game the system.
That article in DNAInfo was very interesting. Thank you. I'd love to know the educational attainment levels of those affordable housing residents. My friend is very smart and has informed herself about much of this process, but she's not college educated and doesn't have a computer. And she works at night and is raising two kids on her own. It seems unreasonable to me to expect people to read through 139 pages of regulation to improve their chances of being hopeful.
I understand that the sheer volume of the applications makes it hard to personalize the process, but shouldn't the incredibly high number of disqualified applicants signal a problem in the system. I know I'm not saying anything that probably hasn't already been said here many times before, but I'm curious to know if there are any significant efforts underway to influence the policy and make it more equitable.
She doesn't have to read everything in the handbook. If she just reads the income section, that will be enough. She can read select sections just to get through the application. While the guidelines can't be changed on a city level per se, their interpretation can (for instance, way overestimating her income because of the occasional OT--the OT could be looked at for what it was--occasional). That's why I don't believe it hurts to draw in the public advocate or mayor's office, if you or she has the energy for that. Maybe get a state senator/assembly person, city council member involved, if either of you has the will or energy. There is some slim hope for her on the wait list, because someone could get kicked out, or in the end not take a unit that's been assigned, etc. It's not hopeless, but she should keep applying to all the lotteries.
Thanks Moving415. We're going to give the PA a try. She's my former City Council member and I have known her since then so I'm hoping that might help a little.
And I'll encourage her to keep applying. Wivile mentioned they are getting rid of CB preferences so perhaps that will help her chances.
Real estate is a heartbreaking is so many ways.
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