Affordable Housing Lottery- Higher Tax Returns appeal (Fowler, Hope: how much, college)

[LuckyTris]

Hi everyone I have been reading through this forum but haven’t found a response to my question. Although I have found good information about appeals, it feels like people are sort of tight lipped when it comes to what they actually say to have a successful appeal.

Has anyone successfully defended having higher tax returns and a lower current income when appealing?
I have read here about people being successful when they were laid off and started another job or when they retired or when it was just sporadic income like winning a little at the casino. But has anyone won an appeal when their employer simply cut your hours or decided to no longer offer overtime?

Any advice, suggestions or success stories?

Thank you!!

[macnyc2003]

Income is calculated several different ways, and the highest amount is used. One of those methods is the prior year's tax return (maybe the prior two years of returns, I don't know).

As far as I can tell, you would have to mount an appeal based on the fact that your income is permanently decreased. It would help if you are employed in an industry, such as publishing, that is contracting.

What you're talking about would fall under the "continuing need" provision. The city and state try to weed out people who take a job that pays less on purpose or otherwise lower their income just to qualify for a housing program.

From the Marketing Handbook, page 55:

5-5 Continuing Need
Eligibility is also dependent on whether the applicant can demonstrate a
“continuing need” for housing assistance. Any City-assisted housing
development aims to serve individuals and families with a true, continuing need
for housing assistance and not those with other financial resources available or
those who have a recent history of higher earning power and are only temporarily
at an income level eligible for the program. In determining “continuing need” for
these programs, the criteria in this section must be satisfied, or the applicant is
not eligible.
Note: HPD and HDC’s property ownership, asset limit, primary residence, and
gift income policies differ from, or are required in addition to, those included in
the HUD Occupancy Handbook 4350.3.

A. RECENT INCOME HISTORY
1. In addition to reviewing current income verifications, the Marketing Agent
must evaluate an applicant’s most recent income history based on the
applicant’s most recent tax returns. Unless a compelling argument can be
made as to why an applicant’s income decreased, the highest income of the
sources must be used.
2. Here are examples of continuing need demonstrated in changes to recent
income history:
The maximum income for a single applicant to Plaza Towers is $30,000.

MARKETING HANDBOOK, SECTION 5: DETAILED SELECTION POLICIES
5-5: Continuing Need
Page 56 of 73
Example 1: Mary Smith is an accountant who was laid off by her previous
employer, where her tax return shows she earned $32,000 a year. Her new
employment with a different accounting firm pays her $28,000 a year as
documented by her pay stubs and 3rd party employer letter. In this case, a
compelling argument can be made not to use Mary’s tax return income, even
though that is the highest amount. The change in Mary’s income was not
voluntary and her new job/earnings are generally consistent with her recent
history. The amount from her current pay stubs and 3rd party should therefore
be used, under which she is eligible.
Example 2: John Hower recently quit his job as a college professor, where his
tax return shows he earned $75,000 a year, to pursue other interests. He has
recently started working as a waiter and presently earns $27,000 a year
based on his pay stubs and 3rd party verification. In this case, no exception is
warranted. John has clearly demonstrated a recent history of significantly
higher earning patterns. The change appears to be voluntary and/or
temporary in nature, which is not the intent of City-assisted low-income
housing programs. John is encouraged to apply to our programs in the future,
after a minimum of a full year’s tax returns as well as current verifications may
document a suitable pattern of eligibility.
3. The Marketing Agent may request in writing that the Agency grant an
exception to the above criteria based on extenuating circumstances. The
Agency will consider such requests on a case-by-case basis.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/hpd/down...g-handbook.pdf

[LuckyTris]

Thank you. So as long as I prove it is not voluntary. So if my employer mentioned that her budget only includes x amount for me and wrote my current hours and schedule is that something that would make a successful appeal? Or does she or I I have to go into more detail explaining how my lower salary this year is a result of companies we do business with went into chapter 11 and had a direct negative impact on us and my salary. I am just wondering how much detail do they want or need? It seems I would need the marketing agent to ask for an exception for me...generally so they ever really do that?

[macnyc2003]

It’s not that the marketing agent is making an exception for you. It’s that you fulfill the continuing need provision. I’m not sure how much detail you have to go into. Why did the businesses go into chapter 11? Is the whole industry in decline? If so, I suggest you say that. That would indicate it’s a trend and not just a random bad year.

It’s great your boss is willing to go to bat for you. That will make a big difference.

Make sure you use the phrase continuing need. Quote from the handbook as much as possible.

[Satyrical]

I have a question. I'm about to appeal and I was wondering if they hold the unit for you? Does it matter if I appeal the 1st day or the 10th day? I am in CB Preference so if they gave my unit away would they have to give me one allocated for general population? The handbook says:

Applicants have 10 business days from the sent date or postmark of the ineligibility or rejection notice to appeal in writing to the Marketing Agent. The applicant’s place on the log is maintained while the appeal is under review


I want to make sure I have grounds if I appeal the 10th day. Hopefully they will do things correctly but if not I want to make sure I have grounds to fight for an apt allocated to the general population if needed. I need to wait to do my 2019 tax returns. I had an involuntary change of income in 2018 but they didn't care about the letter from my employer that went with the original application. So I want to do my taxes and give them 2019 W2 as proof since they used my 2018 W2 to reject me.

[AnotherFowler]

I’m no genius:
I have applied, interviewed, appealed, move in to a unit, and did the entire process all over again for a larger unit:
A simple statement from yourself and your employer. “My hours have permanently changed. I expect to make xx,xxx. Please consider reconsider using my current paystubs.”
Get it notarized.
Appeal sooner than later. If something is wrong with the appeal you can just resubmit it.
Use your email, as your paper trail.
Download the tiny scanner app , take a pic of the letter, send it in an email to appeal.
Good luck to you

[AnotherFowler]

I actually just saw an older post you made that I responded to:
So did you actually receive a rejection or are you anticipating a rejection??? Your last post was worded differently but I realized it’s the same topic. So if you did receive a rejection that you plan on appealing....What is the amount that they gave you?

[Satyrical]

I was anticipating a rejection so I was hoping to have my employers letter and my last paystub be sufficient to not be rejected. My social worker told me that is what I would need. However Thursday I was rejected because of my W2 I emailed and asked around and they didn’t take my employers letter into consideration because I have the potential to make more. So now I’m going to appeal. I think I have until the 23rd. I plan to do my 2019 taxes, give them 12 paystubs including 2 from 2019 and an updated employers letter. I just don’t know what more he needs to say. My social worker has given me different information than what I found in this forum and has been wrong at every turn so I’m just looking for answers and ideas here to put into my appeal letter. I have 2 potential points to overturn the rejection. My employer letter and continuing need because my income change was involuntary and the handbook said they have to use the most recent w2 and tax returns. Another concern is the IRS doesn’t accept returns until the 27th so I don’t want to send my appeal this week being afraid they ask the IRS for my updated taxes before the 27th because they would have not processed 2019 yet.


Thank you for your help

[Mimilove]

Originally Posted by Satyrical

I was anticipating a rejection so I was hoping to have my employers letter and my last paystub be sufficient to not be rejected. My social worker told me that is what I would need. However Thursday I was rejected because of my W2 I emailed and asked around and they didn’t take my employers letter into consideration because I have the potential to make more. So now I’m going to appeal. I think I have until the 23rd. I plan to do my 2019 taxes, give them 12 paystubs including 2 from 2019 and an updated employers letter. I just don’t know what more he needs to say. My social worker has given me different information than what I found in this forum and has been wrong at every turn so I’m just looking for answers and ideas here to put into my appeal letter. I have 2 potential points to overturn the rejection. My employer letter and continuing need because my income change was involuntary and the handbook said they have to use the most recent w2 and tax returns. Another concern is the IRS doesn’t accept returns until the 27th so I don’t want to send my appeal this week being afraid they ask the IRS for my updated taxes before the 27th because they would have not processed 2019 yet.


Thank you for your help

They can't ask for 2019 tax returns yet since IRS doesn't even accept them until the end of month.
Also(don't take my word for it, I suggest you ask HPD about this) but I believe that legally everyone has until about April, and that's if you don't file an extension to file taxes which means that if you don't have them yet then there's nothing they can do about it, and they will have to use 2018s return. Now I understand your case is that 2019 returns will actually help you, so I do suggest you speak with HPD.

Who is the marketing agent you are dealing with?

Was the letter from your employer notarized?
It makes no sense as to why you've been rejected with an employers letter.
Did they also not conduct an income verification via your employer?
If they did and your employer made it clear on that income verification of the changes then that is also proof that should help you win your appeal.

You keep saying your social worker, but I am assuming that you mean the marketing agent who is giving you the run around. Marketing agents don't always know all the rules to these lotteries.
Have you spoken to HPD? They will be able to help you and they will even have the ability to reach out to the people handling your application.

[AnotherFowler]

Originally Posted by AnotherFowler

I actually just saw an older post you made that I responded to:
So did you actually receive a rejection or are you anticipating a rejection??? Your last post was worded differently but I realized it’s the same topic. So if you did receive a rejection that you plan on appealing....What is the amount that they gave you?

Sorry this was in response to LuckyTris