Amalgamated Housing...800 units facing gas shutoffs and $7,500 in repairs each! (Accord: low income, 2015)
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For anyone already on the housing list or thinking of moving into Amalgamated Housing in the Bronx, you may want to think twice. The gas is about to be shut off by CON ED and each apartment faces bills of up to $7,500 each!
It's sad that they let it get to this point when it sounds like the problem could have been solved years ago. Amazingly, most co-op shareholders seem to be totally caught "off guard" by this "surprise".
Article here: Roughly 800 Apartments In Northwest Bronx’s Amalgamated Houses Facing Gas Service Shutoffs
"800 units in the the 1,500-apartment system are facing possible gas shutoffs on July 1, as aging gas lines in the buildings are in need of serious repair and building managers are unable to afford to pay for the servicing. Last December, Amalgamated’s contracted plumbing company assessed that “major work” needed to be done to repair the aging gas piping systems in the cooperatives by June 30, which carries a $6,500-$7,500 price tag per apartment."
Another article here: No Silver Bullet For Amalgamated Co-Op Owners
"The pipes in eight of the co-op’s buildings are not up to spec, general manager Charles Zsebedics has informed residents. The inspection results have now triggered a timeline for the co-op to certify repairs or face penalties. Instead, residents are facing sticker shock. Repairs would cost shareholders up to $7,500, according to management’s estimate."
Too bad. Amalgamated seems to be an otherwise great housing alternative.
Am wondering why they are even thinking about repairing all those old gas lines when the rest of the world seems to be moving to eliminate gas lines entirely. Many cities have already banned any new gas hook ups and don't allow it in new construction. Why don't they just shut off the gas to the apartments, remove the gas stoves and replace them with electric? Much easier and much ,much less expensive. It's going to happen anyway in the next 20 or 30 years so it's seems stupid not to do it now.
Too bad. Amalgamated seems to be an otherwise great housing alternative.
Am wondering why they are even thinking about repairing all those old gas lines when the rest of the world seems to be moving to eliminate gas lines entirely. Many cities have already banned any new gas hook ups and don't allow it in new construction. Why don't they just shut off the gas to the apartments, remove the gas stoves and replace them with electric? Much easier and much ,much less expensive. It's going to happen anyway in the next 20 or 30 years so it's seems stupid not to do it now.
Everything you need to know is in OP linked article:
"Zsebedics noted that the buildings also can’t transition its gas stoves to electric stoves in affected apartments, because a standard electric stove would overwhelm the electrical capacity of the building’s near-century old apartments.
According to a study done by Amalgamated Housing, the cost of electrical upgrades to support use of an electric stove in the co-op would be $3,000 per apartment."
Electric cooktops, stoves, ovens, wiring these appliances requires a 50-amp circuit compatible with 240 volts and a 6-gauge wire. These apartments went up in 1920's and were wired for electrical demands of time; a fridge maybe radio and some other minor bits. Kitchens in particular likely only have 120v/15amp or 20 amp service with two circuits. Latter (20 amp) being for the fridge.
You'd have to rip out current panel box, install something new wired for increased service, then run those wires up to each apartment. Fun doesn't stop there because if juice coming from street (ConEd) isn't enough to support that new demand wiring from street main to building will need to be dug up and upgraded.
For anyone already on the housing list or thinking of moving into Amalgamated Housing in the Bronx, you may want to think twice. The gas is about to be shut off by CON ED and each apartment faces bills of up to $7,500 each!
It's sad that they let it get to this point when it sounds like the problem could have been solved years ago. Amazingly, most co-op shareholders seem to be totally caught "off guard" by this "surprise".
Article here: Roughly 800 Apartments In Northwest Bronx’s Amalgamated Houses Facing Gas Service Shutoffs
"800 units in the the 1,500-apartment system are facing possible gas shutoffs on July 1, as aging gas lines in the buildings are in need of serious repair and building managers are unable to afford to pay for the servicing. Last December, Amalgamated’s contracted plumbing company assessed that “major work” needed to be done to repair the aging gas piping systems in the cooperatives by June 30, which carries a $6,500-$7,500 price tag per apartment."
Another article here: No Silver Bullet For Amalgamated Co-Op Owners
"The pipes in eight of the co-op’s buildings are not up to spec, general manager Charles Zsebedics has informed residents. The inspection results have now triggered a timeline for the co-op to certify repairs or face penalties. Instead, residents are facing sticker shock. Repairs would cost shareholders up to $7,500, according to management’s estimate."
Con Ed per se say isn't shutting off anything.
As spelled out in linked article Con Ed must follow rules and laws laid out by NYC Local law 152.
"However, Con Edison officials told the Bronx Times their role in this matter, as it pertains to the Local 152 law that led to the December inspection and mandated deadline for gas shutoff, isn’t enforced by them.
“We’ll shut off gas (for their plumbing company) as it related to them fixing what they need to fix with their gas system, but as far as the inspection and Local Law 152, that’s not something we really control,” said Con Ed spokesperson Allan Drury."
In case you've forgotten NYC passed Local Law 152 after a few buildings in city went *Ka-Boom*
By law property owners must have their gas lines inspected. If things are found that need correcting master plumber has no choice but to make notes and notify building, various city agencies and utility. Con Ed's involvement in this is that once notified work is going to begin they must cut off gas service.
When work is complete and passes inspections Con Ed will be notified and if everything is up to snuff gas service will be restored.
A market rate co-op building with its act together could turn to special assessments levied on each shareholder to fund capital projects such as repair of gas lines.
Amalgamated Houses cannot do above easily if at all; they must turn to state or other funding of low cost/interest loans to get bulk or all money needed.
This is going to start happening citywide if Con Ed starts inspecting each building’s gas lines with its new super sensitive gas leak detection equipment, as described in the Riverdale Press article. Fun and games!
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I believe Amalgamated is about 1400 units. So, the mention of 800 units suggests maybe the problem is not for the entire development. I have not read the article.
Notice the numbers are large and this population can help the solution to the problem, perhaps. The place should organize and let elected officials know about it. Along with politicians, there could be banks that want to make a deal and be part of a solution. It would be good PR. (Bank failures are bad PR.)
If players want to get really complex then a plan for partial or entire conversation to electric might be floated with lots of Green promotion involved.
I don’t know if and how assessments from residents could be involved. Likewise, could a monthly fee be added to future gas bills.
Speculation, residents who might already be near deciding to move for whatever reason might be further encouraged to leave. More speculation, particularly for residents might struggle to pay new fees or assessments, could new costs (some or all) be somehow somewhat shifted unit they depart, by agreement, when their shares are sold back to Amalgamated a portion of those proceeds are kept by Amalgamated to cover these costs and fees. In other words, an exit fee to generate revenue.
Raise parking fees, subject to a means test. Raise the surcharge for those households that rise above the income limit.
Even with possible additional costs it seems the place could still be a good overall value for cost of housing.
Two of the buildings of the complex are a lot newer. They are towers which look to be built in the 1970's. That exlains why the problem is only with 800 units out of the 1,400 or so. The buildings with problems are the original ones that were built. Unfortunately, the whole complex will need to share in the repairs. Let's hope this is adequately and thoroughly disclosed to people before they ”buy into” the complex.
This is going to start happening citywide if Con Ed starts inspecting each building’s gas lines with its new super sensitive gas leak detection equipment, as described in the Riverdale Press article. Fun and games!
Did you not read any of the linked articles? By NYC local law *ALL* buildings must have their gas lines inspected with findings recorded and reported. A master plumber (same persons who also by NYC local laws are only ones supposed to install gas appliances/make connections/ run piping, etc...) does the inspections and reports findings.
Con Ed or whoever supplies gas has zero to do with things other than turning on or off service before/after repairs are done.
What can and often does happen is whoever is doing work fails to submit or sign off on work, this and or when Con Ed or whoever supplies gas inspects before turning things back on finds something wrong. In that case gas supplier will not turn on gas until deficiencies are corrected.
Again this all came in wake of those buildings going *Boom* a few years ago including one on LES that caused a few deaths.
As for balance of your post NYC has some of the oldest housing stock in country. Good amount of it has not been kept in best conditions. So yes, who knows what the eff people are going to find when gas lines that went in 50, 60 or nearly (or over) 100 years ago.
There are townhouses and tenements/multi-family that still have gas lines used for lighting in walls. No one has looked at or touched those pipes in ages, but often good number are still "live". That is they were only capped when place switched over to electric lighting, but are still "live" with gas.
I believe Amalgamated is about 1400 units. So, the mention of 800 units suggests maybe the problem is not for the entire development. I have not read the article.
Notice the numbers are large and this population can help the solution to the problem, perhaps. The place should organize and let elected officials know about it. Along with politicians, there could be banks that want to make a deal and be part of a solution. It would be good PR. (Bank failures are bad PR.)
If players want to get really complex then a plan for partial or entire conversation to electric might be floated with lots of Green promotion involved.
I don’t know if and how assessments from residents could be involved. Likewise, could a monthly fee be added to future gas bills.
Speculation, residents who might already be near deciding to move for whatever reason might be further encouraged to leave. More speculation, particularly for residents might struggle to pay new fees or assessments, could new costs (some or all) be somehow somewhat shifted unit they depart, by agreement, when their shares are sold back to Amalgamated a portion of those proceeds are kept by Amalgamated to cover these costs and fees. In other words, an exit fee to generate revenue.
Raise parking fees, subject to a means test. Raise the surcharge for those households that rise above the income limit.
Even with possible additional costs it seems the place could still be a good overall value for cost of housing.
If affected shareholders are crying about paying $7k to $8k for gas line repair, they certainly cannot afford cost of upgrading wiring to provide 240v/50amp service to run electric stoves, burners and ovens.
When you own property you have to take the rough with smooth.
Frequent problem with limited equity co-op or whatever housing is the structure under which they are created (to provide low income or "affordable" housing) often also means they don't have reserves or resources to handle major capital improvements or maintenance issues.
Due to that same structure most banks won't act as primary lender due to difficulties arising from getting at what most would want as security for loan; the actual property.
When banks or others do finance things involved with limited equity co-ops rates usually are what they are; which is often more than shareholders can afford. Hence Amalgamated Houses like many similar properties turns to state and or NYC for a touch.
Penn South benefitted from Obama administration, Schumer and city council to get $190 million loan at good rate.
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