Why do people hate the YUPPIES.. Please provide input (New York: unemployment, to buy)
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Why is it always about "midwesterners?" Why is there always an indirect/underlying current of distaste for things American in NYC? You want to talk about kids that are priviledged, armed with trust funds, wealth, connections, snooty, etc....the midwest is far from it! It is right here..your local NYC/LI/Westchester/Greenwich/NJ kids with the most money/worst attitudes...yet we blame the "outsiders" (midwesteners) for the supposed "downfall" of NYC. Right....now I can see why there is so much unbridled hate for the Community Center going up...
Yuppies only move into neighborhoods well after the "damage" has been done. In fact they're the last to show up; usually only after a neighborhood has been scrubbed, renovated, and made financially hostile to those pesky brown people.
But really it's the artists, gays, hipsters and cool kids that set the wheels in motion.
This is an excellent point. The Greenwich Village/Williamsburg transformation is a perfect example. Greenwich had this wonderful reputation as a low key, politically liberal, artsy bohemia and as that lifestyle became en vogue, others seeking a retreat from their uber structured lives, perhaps looking to add some "edge" to their credentials, begin to seek it out. As they moved in, they increased the demand for housing and raised the pricing forcing the lower income artists and activists who made the area the desirable in the first place to move out. They reassembled further out in Williamsburg, LES, you know the drill. And guess what quickly happened to those areas?
I personally have nothing against yuppies, but I do sympathize when a neighborhood begins to lose its essence and becomes a caricature of what it once was. I think the reason why the yuppie/local thing works out a bit better in DC is because there is an understanding that you are entering into an area that is already in existence. There is much more of an effort to preserve what is already in place. People seem to recognize the importance of the little mom and pop shops rather than plowing it down to make room for another chain store. I think the City officials contribute to this as much as anyone else.
This is not a problem specific to NYC. I'm originally from Atlanta. There is a part of town there called Little 5 Points. It was sort of the Bohemian/artsy part of town. When I was younger it was a cool place to hang out. Then it started gentrifying. First they built an atrocious shopping center with a Best Buy, Bed Bath and Beyond, etc. Then they started building all these condos. Now instead of running into people with all sorts of tattoos and piercings you're running into "preppy" (for lack of a better word) type people. It is true that the changes increase property value and decrease crime which is positive. But it also sort of destroys the "soul" of the area so to speak. If you don't come from a lower/middle class background it may be difficult to understand this as all you might see is poverty and crime. Maybe that is an incorrect statement but the point is that sometimes there is more to an area than what is visible to the naked eye. I was disgusted when I saw these changes happening but later sort of accepted it. I myself have turned into a bit of a yuppy with a decent paying job and living in a trendy part of JC. If any part of JC can be considered trendy. 3 doors down from me is an old spanish couple that sits out on their stoop daily. They probably have been here for years. Now they are surrounded by all these "young professionals" moving into their neighborhood and probably eventually driving them out. That is why people hate yuppies. Sadly I guess I am now a part of it. Lastly, i didn't read all 14 freakin pages so forgive me if I have regurgitated something that has already been said.
Last edited by Lagwagon113; 09-17-2010 at 07:57 PM..
Many of the opinions running throughout this thread pose “either / or” scenarios that are simply not true. The most common one seems to be that if it weren’t for “yuppies” in New York City, crime would be rampant, filth would be everywhere, and the city would be dead broke.
Let’s put the bong away for a bit and look at some actual dynamics, facts, and stats.
When NYC made its resurgence beginning in the mid-eighties, it had virtually nothing to do with “yuppies” or “gentrification.” From 1977 until 1984 (roughly), approximately 850,000 thousand people left New York City for other cities and states. The term used for this at the time was “white flight.” The implication was that people of “color” (blacks and Hispanics mostly) were uneducated, popping out kids at high rates, collecting welfare, and generally creating undesirable mayhem in the so-called “quality of life” for others. It was never that simple, Beaver. Much of the city’s downfall began with a bad national economy and federal policies that helped create rampant ‘red lining’ in urban neighborhoods and regions. NYC, Detroit, Watts, and Jersey City were some of the most affected urban areas by this in the post Civil Rights era.
Gentrification is a Myth
From 1984 or so, until 2000, about 2 million immigrants arrived in NYC, while only 250,000 ‘transplants’ from elsewhere in the country made their way here during the same period. This is also the same time frame in which NYC began its turn around. In addition to this, the city under Mayor Koch began strategies to attract mega bucks to the city by offering huge tax breaks for outside investors (but not small local business, which received much, much smaller incentives). Not only were the enticements for huge investors economic, but “social” as well. This was the beginning of “quality of life” inducements to meet potential investor’s interests. Disney and Times Square were the first such marriage of this kind, and on such a large scale.
This was followed by ‘big box’ stores and major national chains who not only sought prime real estate in the most sought after city, but a surrounding environment which was attractive to those with essentially homogenized tastes for living. In other words, they wanted the lion’s share of local and visiting (i.e. tourist) cash flow. What better way than to appeal to the lowest common denominator (hence the ‘Midwesterners’ mentioned throughout the thread).
Meanwhile, immigrants are filling up the openings of newly created low wage jobs, adding hundreds of millions to the city’s tax base, revitalizing and expanding long established ‘minority’ businesses and neighborhoods as well as creating new ones (primarily Chinese, Jamaican, Guyanese, Mexican and Ecuadorian among others). Keep this in mind the next time some self absorbed miscreant spouts that crap about “all they do is take our jobs and drain the system.” This also goes for those who think “boutiques” and “cafes” are the heart of the city’s vibrant culture.
The so-called “yuppie” did not come with 2 million immigrants. They mostly did not come with 250,000 ‘transplants.’ They came after successful change started and then claiming it for themselves by insisting that separating recyclables and sweeping sidewalks eliminated drugs and crime and “saved the city.” Law enforcement minimized drugs and crime, no thanks to anyone but law enforcement. Immigrants revitalized the city’s economy, cleaned and built the surrounding environments (just observe the number of “foreign” born at any construction site throughout the city as well as most service based industries), and gave it the various cultures that so many come to experience.
Note, too, how many “yuppie” neighborhoods look incredibly alike in their homogenized business and social environments (not just locally, but on the national scale as well). Not so for immigrant neighborhoods, where many businesses are local and unique, as opposed to the same ‘K-Mart,’ ‘Starbucks,’ ‘Dunkin Donuts,’ ‘Barnes and Nobel,’ ad nauseum, found almost everywhere throughout the region.
As for the 250,000 who came here from elsewhere in the states over a fifteen year period, the number is nowhere near enough to bring about the changes which this or any other city has seen, a few neighborhoods perhaps, but the entire city? No way…not even close. Considering how “educated” most yuppies consider themselves, it’s rather surprising that the best most of them can do is ‘parrot’ sloppy op-ed pieces and Snapple-quality “facts,” rather than delve into the true complexity of what makes a city’s social economy function and how its culture actually works. “Gentrification” is largely a Myth.
As for that business of New York City disliking "America," one would do well to recognize the fact of history that the United States essentially began its unique cultural life in New York City, not the other way around. If anything, NYC is more American than most regions for its complete pluralism of immigrant integration, and wide cultural opportunities, as opposed to the singular and limited communities that make up most of rural America. This country, by and large, has a history of hating NYC (just ask some of the nation's Founding Fathers and most pre-2001 Americans). Since September of 2001, most of these people now claim to "Love" it. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Last edited by Tony Of New York; 12-09-2010 at 11:58 PM..
"The so-called “yuppie†did not come with 2 million immigrants. They mostly did not come with 250,000 ‘transplants.’ They came after successful change started"
There was "gentrification" in NYC before 1980. Way back in the 1970s, in Manhattan (SoHo) and in Park Slope, etc.
" and then claiming it for themselves by insisting that separating recyclables and sweeping sidewalks eliminated drugs and crime and “saved the city.""
The broken windows thesis, the enforcement of minor crimes, was a thesis of James Q Wilson, and was not particularly advocated by Yuppies. It probably had SOME impact on crime.
Seperate recyclables and sweeping sidewalks are things that would seem to be good in themselves.
†Law enforcement minimized drugs and crime, no thanks to anyone but law enforcement. Immigrants revitalized the city’s economy, cleaned and built the surrounding environments (just observe the number of “foreign†born at any construction site throughout the city as well as most service based industries), and gave it the various cultures that so many come to experience. "
Immigrants came to NY because there were jobs here to be had. There are other great American cities that have not attracted so many immigrants, or the immigrants havent revived the cities so much.
"Note, too, how many “yuppie†neighborhoods look incredibly alike in their homogenized business and social environments (not just locally, but on the national scale as well). Not so for immigrant neighborhoods, where many businesses are local and unique, as opposed to the same ‘K-Mart,’ ‘Starbucks,’ ‘Dunkin Donuts,’ ‘Barnes and Nobel,’ ad nauseum, found almost everywhere throughout the region."
When Yuppies want independent stores instead of chains, they are attacked as pretentious hipsters. When they like the same chains that middle class americans do, they are homogenizers. They just can't win.
"As for the 250,000 who came here from elsewhere in the states over a fifteen year period, the number is nowhere near enough to bring about the changes which this or any other city has seen, a few neighborhoods perhaps, but the entire city? "
well for one, have all yuppies come from somewhere else? Some are the children of NYC itself, children of middle class NY who remained, but were upwardly mobile. Some came from the suburbs, in state. I suppose a few came from upstate NY.
Also, as I said above, confining it to 15 years is arbitrary.
"No way…not even close. Considering how “educated†most yuppies consider themselves, it’s rather surprising that the best most of them can do is ‘parrot’ sloppy op-ed pieces and Snapple-quality “facts,â€"
Maybe they are educated in fields other than the sociology of NY. Though I would say many are quite capable of discussing the sociology of NYC with more depth and less resentment than you are displaying.
"“Gentrification†is largely a Myth."
It always affected a limited number of neighborhoods. Its mainly those who fear it, who magnify it, I would say.
It certainly had a big impact on North Brooklyn. I would say Manhattan, but you wouldnt count that, because that is so much people who were already in NYC.
Lots of immigrants come into the city. But then they also flow out of the city, to the suburbs, or to other parts of the US.
If you look at the total parts of the city lived in by the upper middle and upper class, and the native born middle class origin young, its far larger than is implied by the number of 250,000 you cite. In terms of the extent of tax revenue its greater than that. In terms of the dynamism of the city's economy, its even more than that. Why are those immigrants in NY, and not Detroit or Cleveland? Because of the dynamism of the lead sectors of the NY economy, which are largely the financial sector, and the publishing/media/arts sectors, which are, where innovation and growth are led by people who you seem to think are marginal to the city's wellbeing.
I daresay its you who aren't looking at the complexity of the city's socio-economic functioning. You can't understand it simply by looking at migration data, which themselves are a RESULT, more than a cause, of economic growth, if you are looking at the metropolitan level, and not focused on retail establishments in neighborhoods.
"This was followed by ‘big box’ stores and major national chains who not only sought prime real estate in the most sought after city,"
but a surrounding environment which was attractive to those with essentially homogenized tastes for living. "
The big box retailers go whereever there is demand. They don't usually change the environment. The city didnt change Times square for retailers, but for office development. It was too potentially valuable a property, too close to historic prime office areas. And it was a place of vice and crime that middle class old new yorkers avoided.
"In other words, they wanted the lion’s share of local and visiting (i.e. tourist) cash flow."
Retailers generally like to grow their share. thats capitalism. And tourist retail expenditure is trivial.
" What better way than to appeal to the lowest common denominator (hence the ‘Midwesterners’ mentioned throughout the thread). "
If you think new immigrants dont like to shop at big box retailers, you are a fool. Go outside NY sometime, theres nothing BUT recent immigrants in walmarts in many places. And huge numbers in Costco, Target, etc.
Chain stores did not originate with modern big boxes btw. Once upon a time, they originated in NY (from Macys and EJ Korvettes to Chock full of nuts)
I grew up in brooklyn, went to college and graduate school, and after a detour in the sunbelt, moved to a renovated apt (in a former school, a 19th century building) in Bolton Hill, a 19th c townhouse nabe in Baltimore.
I preferred to Thai food to local cuisine, I liked to read, and I enjoyed art openings. I spoke standard English, I failed to drink beer on the street corner, and I did not commit crimes. I went on to marry and have a kid, and moved to the suburbs (in DC) though I always liked the city.
I think that makes me a yuppie (or former yuppie, as I am no longer young) I am sorry if that makes some of you think I am a monster, or attribute to me pretention I dont feel. Or trendiness because I want to try something new that I have read about. I am sorry if I am homogenizing when I shop at Best Buy, but pretentious when I shop at a boutique. I am sorry that I am hypocritically artsy whenever I render any aesthetic judgement whatsoever.
I am just a human being trying to raise a family and to enjoy life, after my fashion, and to contribute to society as I can. I do not like the pretension of the McMansions, but I do like interesting architecture, and I like art galleries. And when I spend my hard earned money on wine or beer or coffee, I am not going to spend it on a "populist brand" that I dont think is a good deal, just to prove a point.
I support politicians who DO want to do something about poverty. Somehow I end up resented both by the poor, for not being poor, and by the rich for not fighting "socialism"
yes, when I choose to live somewhere, that increases demand and raises prices. As is the case when ANY group of people prefer to live somewhere. Thats market economics. If you like market economics you shouldnt complain. If you DONT like market economics, you should try to change it - if you have a good case to make, I swear I will listen and maybe support you.
I think those of you who attack yuppies, or make absolute generalizations about them, when as often as not you can't even define them, except by negative stereotypes, need to reexamine yourselves first, and see whats missing from your own lives.
Yuppies ruin whatever place they move to. They had destroyed San Francisco completely. I have education and profession, but wouldn't want to be considered a yuppie, someone who destroyes artistic, interesting area by moving in and trying to breed and fill the place with their screaming children, strollers OR keeping up with Johnses lifestyle.
I believe, people should have a right to preserve the spirit of the neighborhoods and if this means limiting the number new residents and banning new establishments (NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY THEY HAVE)--so be it. If yuppies want to settle and fill the place with their family vibes--go conquer subrubs, build new towns in undeveloped areas, whatever... just don't ruin places.
A little background on me. 29 years old, male, white, jewish/italian decent. Born and Raised, and currently live in Brooklyn New York.
I'm really having a hard time understanding why the majority of folks on this board and in real life that I encounter, truly dislke the yuppies.
Here me out on this. For starters, I am not a yuppie, but I have what some may call "yuppie traits"... I make over 100k a year, I have a house in literally the wealthiest part of brooklyn (not saying where), and I am well educated and successful in life. I appreciate the finer things in life, but they do not make me better than anyone here.
1. Yes the yuppies have a bit of a "nose in the air" attitude... Very true, they look down upon the rest, but if you are half way intelligent, they will treat you as equal. Let's face facts folks... we may not like their choices and lifestyles, but they are living the life.
2. Ok, yes They are a bit way into the whole artsy fartsy thing... I appreicate fine art, but I don't pop a boner when I see a painting or sculpture and I do not look down upon the rest if they cant, so call "appreciate the work." Still, who cares.
Those are truly my only two gripes with them, but I would rather have them around me, bringin up proerty value, having crime drop to 0% and actually affording my children the oppurutnity to get a "real education" in public school w/o having to worrya bout getting their lunch money taken away or beaten up, and rather then having to send them to private school (which is actually worse from a educational standpoint then public school.
I do visit park slope and the rest of that "section" of brooklyn, so I see them in action most of the times.
OK folks, so blast the cap open on this volcano. Please enlighten me on why they are so damn hated.
Thanks!
D
[SIZE=5]sleftofbrooklyn[/SIZE]
Member befriend
Oh thank God you told us how much you make and that you like the finer things in life, bc ppl like myself (make under 65K/ year) dont like the finer things in life, love to eat out of trash cans, and live in ghettos.
Comments like yours make ppl hate yuppies.
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