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I found this thread on Saturday, and kept thinking about the OP's situation all weekend. I have been lurking on this forum for a while; however, this discussion prompted me to register because I just couldn't stay on the sideline any longer.
I feel empathy for gemini, to some extent. However, I honestly believe you are on a trajectory to make your life worse. And, in the process, you're going to take someone else down with you, and I don't think that's at all cool.
Like many others here, I believe you should break up with your girlfriend immediately. I would feel tremendously insulted if I was with a partner who didn't find me physically attractive and only wanted me because I was a friend with fertility benefits.
You said that you're willing to date her for a year, then propose if the spirit moves you. Did you ever think that she may be smart enough to get the sense that you're not all that into her, and she'll dump you before you can start ring shopping?
I went through something similar. I met a woman online and we dated exclusively for a while. Like you, I wasn't really into her, but was willing to see where it would go. The timetable was about the same; I'd reach the one-year point and decide if this was "go" or "no go". Well, about six months into this thing, she decided she wanted out. People can usually figure out when they're getting played. This was about nine years ago. I haven't spoken to her since and, from what I understand, she is married. Good for her.
Five months after that ended, I met my wife. We got engaged the day after my 30th birthday, had our wedding the following summer, and had our first child last May. Our son was born one month and one day before my 36th birthday. I wish I had more physical and mental energy to play with him, but it's all fine. My wife was 32 when he was born. She would have preferred to have a child while in her 20s but, by waiting, we were able to have some couple time, find good jobs, buy a house, and get situated before trying to conceive.
I know this "mental time bomb" is tough to deal with. We're seeing this now with my sister, who turned 33 this year. She wanted to live a carefree life in the city, party until all hours of the night, and not have anything tying her down. She had long-term boyfriends, but never seemed interested in getting married to any of them. Then, when my son was born, everything changed. Now, the biological clock is going off and there's no snooze button. She was almost hospitalized for depression the day after her 33rd birthday. You mentioned daily panic attacks; do not let it get that far!
To bring this all back on point, if you are not nutso about this woman, do not marry her! As others have said, that love between a man and woman is the core that holds the marriage together through tough times. And, believe me, in almost six years, my wife and I have had some rough spots. Everyone does. If you don't have a strong love for this woman, you'll just want to end this when the going gets tough or you just wake up one day and decide you're not having fun anymore.
My wife and I are in love with each other, and we're in love with our son - because he's our child and we feel he combines the best attributes of both of us. (OK, he may well have some of our worst attributes, too.) Don't settle for having a child with just any warm body.
So, if you haven't already, get together with this girlfriend asap, have a heart-to-heart talk, and say "goodbye". Don't cheese out by breaking up with her over the phone or by e-mail. The first step toward finding your real mate is ending this current relationship. Don't be insulted but I think keeping this woman around is being exploitative. If she knew how you truly felt about her, she would rightfully be ticked.
You're in NYC, surrounded by some of the world's most amazing people. I know it's hard to be alone in the big city, but a world of possibility is outside your door. Get out there, meet people and date around - with an emphasis on enjoying yourself (and by that I don't mean just meaningless hookups). Just truly enjoy getting to know other people. I think you'll find that when you focus on that, your outlook and results will change.
If you don't have an unselfish love for your wife, how in the world will you have an unselfish love for your child?
Thanks for your response and you make many valid points. She may very well feel unfulfilled in this relationship and decide to move on--if that happens, fine. But at this point, I doubt it--she is really into me. And I promise that I am not a bad person (though it may seem like it after everything you have read)--I really do want this girl to have a great life, with or without me. On this forum, I am expressing what I feel at heart, even though it may be selfish--I am normally strong enough to be unselfish, but these thoughts, feelings, anxiety are overwhelming me.
This is the type of girl that is very compromising and that I "should" be in love with. I dont know what kind of mental idiocy prevents that. And we are just in the "dating" phase--still getting to know each other better. I do believe that if I am not in love with her after dating her another 6 months, either me or her will end this relationship.
I emphathize deeply with your sister--I know that its harder for women. I can imagine that once you first see a brother's child, you would want so badly to have one of your own. The panic attacks come from knowing that if I want to lead the life that I have envisioned (ie. having 2-3 kids and a family), I need to act now--and I bet your sister feels similarly.
I know there are so many people in this city and I meet some everyday. But I just feel that I don't have the time to fall in love anymore. I dont even know if I am capable of falling in love in that way. But I do promise that if I end up with this girl, she will never know that I don't fully love her and I am the type of person who LOVES kids--I am going through all this precisely because I want my future kids to have a wonderful life with parents that keep up and that love them without compromise.
I gotta say, gemini, I'm surprised that you have trouble meeting women in NYC. That city is packed with hotties looking for a good man. I was a poor med student when I lived up there and I had no trouble meeting quality woman all the time. I recommend working out at the NYSC on 34th and Park. You shouldn't have any trouble meeting quality chicks there
Haha, you are clearly more suave than me my friend. More seriously, yes I do meet women--but they are either not ready for a relationship (or too busy) or otherwise unavailable. I do occasionally (maybe once every other week) meet a girl who seems to like me and want to start a relationship but I find some sort of deal-breaker--ie, she smokes or she doesnt want children or we have completely different values and/or vision for a long-term future together. I feel that the laws of probability will dictate that I eventually meet a great girl with similar values who I have strong feelings for--but the problem is that I just dont feel like I have the time for that. That's the whole issue here--time.
Well, I think you're over analyzing just a bit much, but if you stop expecting people to be "perfect" and go with the flow you'll open up the possibilities a lot. There is no perfect person. Accepting people for who they are is a big part of marriage. I think that's why some people delay marriage so long. I saw my own sister do it. She was looking for a person she could check all the boxes on and she passed up some great guys who were really into her. Instead, she woke up one day, realized she was running out of time to get married and have children, and next thing I know she's getting married to some guy 13 years her senior on his second marriage, a very high net worth, and zero personality. She did get her baby though, and he's a very sweet little boy. Unfortunately she's also miserable.
I know--I have accepted that. I am no longer looking for the perfect person. I see good in every girl that I meet. But I do not fall in love with them. And that's why I am so interested in considering this girl. She would be the perfect mother. I doubt we would be miserable--I think we could work anything out. But I also dont know that I would be crazy about her.
To SteveDr -- great post! concise and informational
To PsychDoc -- where did you meet all these "hotties"? (excl. NYSC) On a side note, I was walking in the UES yesterday when this good-looking, young woman passed me by. We walked close to each other for a couple of blocks when she "cut me off" and entered a bldg w/ no signs on it. I was enchanted and couldnt help but stare, and i noticed an inscription on the front -- "....Fitness Club" I immediately thought to myself, "Ohhhhh, it's no surprise now that she had such a body". I dont know if she is a great person inside b/c I never talked to her, but I suppose PsychDoc is right that there are plenty of "hotties" out there. (I see them mostly in the UESI love that neighborhood)
And finally,to the OP -- if you think she is flat-chested now, wait until she's done breastfeeding your children. It's not fair, dude. Let her go. Besides, if you aren't single, how will you flirt with other women?! Suppose you notice a girl that attracts you. You won't be able to go talk to her, and you'll be thinking, "Gee, that could've been my wife!"
I know, I have thought about that. And that's where I am being utimately and completely selfish. The fact is that if I meet another girl that I think would make a good wife (and who I love) in the next 6-8 months, I probably would leave her for the other girl. I know its not fair or right. The only thing that I can say to defend myself is that I am feeling such anxiety and near-to-depression that I have to protect myself. I accept all criticisms regarding my character and know they are well deserved.
Is there anyone out there who has "settled" and has made it work? I just cant believe that everybody ended up with a girl/guy that they are in love with. That's too fairytale. I think people find a way to love the person that they wound up with. And that's what I am looking to do.
I know, I have thought about that. And that's where I am being utimately and completely selfish. The fact is that if I meet another girl that I think would make a good wife (and who I love) in the next 6-8 months, I probably would leave her for the other girl. I know its not fair or right. The only thing that I can say to defend myself is that I am feeling such anxiety and near-to-depression that I have to protect myself. I accept all criticisms regarding my character and know they are well deserved.
Is there anyone out there who has "settled" and has made it work? I just cant believe that everybody ended up with a girl/guy that they are in love with. That's too fairytale. I think people find a way to love the person that they wound up with. And that's what I am looking to do.
You are right- a lot of people marry for the wrong reasons (bio clock, money, etc) and that is a HUGE reason the divorce rate is so high. People do eventually realize they made a big mistake and want out.
I love all the excuses you give for why proceeding with this girl is ok. I can't wait to hear the crap you come up with after marrying her to justify your affair and eventual divorce when you do meet "the one".
I have seen this happen twice in my young life (I'm 30)- once with a femal friend, once with a guy friend. Both married people they "settled" for (the guy because they had been dating for 5 years and "it was time" and the girl because she got swept up in the financial dream of marrying a surgeon). Both ended up cheating once they met the people they felt they were "always" supposed to end up with. The girl met "the one" about six weeks after her wedding day at a work convention. Both have gotten divorced since (one couple already had kids) and it is heart-breaking to see the number of lives impacted (since both were cheating with people who were also married). That makes 4 couples impacted- 4 divorces, at least 1 with kids involved.
All of that could have been prevented if the spouse doing the "settling" would have grown balls and done the right thing.
So my advice to you, friend....GROW A PAIR and man up!!!
Thanks for your response and you make many valid points. She may very well feel unfulfilled in this relationship and decide to move on--if that happens, fine. But at this point, I doubt it--she is really into me. And I promise that I am not a bad person (though it may seem like it after everything you have read)--I really do want this girl to have a great life, with or without me. On this forum, I am expressing what I feel at heart, even though it may be selfish--I am normally strong enough to be unselfish, but these thoughts, feelings, anxiety are overwhelming me.
This is the type of girl that is very compromising and that I "should" be in love with. I dont know what kind of mental idiocy prevents that. And we are just in the "dating" phase--still getting to know each other better. I do believe that if I am not in love with her after dating her another 6 months, either me or her will end this relationship.
I emphathize deeply with your sister--I know that its harder for women. I can imagine that once you first see a brother's child, you would want so badly to have one of your own. The panic attacks come from knowing that if I want to lead the life that I have envisioned (ie. having 2-3 kids and a family), I need to act now--and I bet your sister feels similarly.
I know there are so many people in this city and I meet some everyday. But I just feel that I don't have the time to fall in love anymore. I dont even know if I am capable of falling in love in that way. But I do promise that if I end up with this girl, she will never know that I don't fully love her and I am the type of person who LOVES kids--I am going through all this precisely because I want my future kids to have a wonderful life with parents that keep up and that love them without compromise.
It's great that you're honest about what you're feeling, even though it's not socially desirable and doesn't put you in a favorable light. To some extent, I can see where you are coming from. It's evident that you are conflicted by all of this. After reading your posts and taking time to digest it all, my take is that you are delusional. Or, a nicer and more accurate description is that I believe you are guided by a set of false premises and assumptions.
You said that your girlfriend is the type of woman you "should" be in love with. Telling yourself that you "should" feel something doesn't make it happen. I'd imagine that the more you try to force your feelings for this woman, the less it will work.
To be blunt, I've "been there, done that", dating a woman who was basically just helping me mark time. When the feeling is not there, it's not there. At the time, I would have leapt at the opportunity to "trade up". You'll want to do the same. So, do it now before you marry this woman and inflict a ton of damage on her.
Apparently, you think going through the motions is better than having nobody at all. Sure, you're willing to give this a chance. But, how open is your heart, really? From what you've said, it's incredibly easy to infer that you expect it's not going to work. If you actually do marry this woman, it would only be because you forced your feelings or told yourself she was too sweet to toss away. Those may not be the exact words rooting around in your head. However, this is exactly how it comes across.
You don't have time to fall in love? Fine. You'd rather waste your time (and someone else's) by hanging around with someone you're not gaga about. It's your decision.
I know you feel that you need to act now. I don't think the situation is as desperate as you make it out to be. Sure, it's easy for me to say that, especially given my situation. However, desperation and panic don't lead to good decision making. And, without an attitude adjustment, you may scare away Ms. Right. Desperate is not attractive.
I used to be just like you - clenching too hard and trying to make things happen. A few weeks after I met my wife, I said to myself "If this works out, great. If not, my life will go on and I'll be okay." Honestly, I wasn't head over heels in love with her at that point. However, I was very attracted to her and willing to see where it would lead. By adjusting my attitude - and by breaking out of my tendency to focus on finding the ideal mate (checking off all the boxes) - I was able to relax enough to where things could happen, and be fun, and we could fall in love.
Gemini, I know there are a lot of people saying don't date a girl you are not in love with. I think I will be one of the only people to disagree with this popular opinion.
I am in my late 20s, have been with my (now) husband for 9 years (yes, I was with him as a late teen), and I GREW to love him. He was a decent guy when I first met him, but I was not passionately in love with him when I first met him, although he was with me. We dated casually and long-distance for the first couple years, and then I moved to the NYC area, not because of him, but because of the job opps out here. Spending more time with him, I first had fun with him, laughed with him, then grew to respect him, and was still not in "heart pounding love." In fact, I have had crushes on other people in the earlier years, and considered the possibility of leaving him for other people. But, over time, I really did develop a deep love for him that could only come from the respect, common goals, and (yes) children that come from a long-term relationship.
I have been in passionate love before. And I would not trade my current life with my husband and child for that. I am truly in love with my hubby now, but just because it didn't start out that way doesn't mean a hoot. Maybe it's different for me, but given your goals, I don't think it would be that different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalenyc
don't date the girl you are not in love with. She will divorce you when she figures out the truth (that you don't love her), take your money, and then where will you be?
No sadder than never finding the perfect woman and ending up a life-long bachelor (if that's not what you wanted to be). Companionship is sometimes more of a priority for some than passion.
Gemini, I know there are a lot of people saying don't date a girl you are not in love with. I think I will be one of the only people to disagree with this popular opinion.
I am in my late 20s, have been with my (now) husband for 9 years (yes, I was with him as a late teen), and I GREW to love him. He was a decent guy when I first met him, but I was not passionately in love with him when I first met him, although he was with me. We dated casually and long-distance for the first couple years, and then I moved to the NYC area, not because of him, but because of the job opps out here. Spending more time with him, I first had fun with him, laughed with him, then grew to respect him, and was still not in "heart pounding love." In fact, I have had crushes on other people in the earlier years, and considered the possibility of leaving him for other people. But, over time, I really did develop a deep love for him that could only come from the respect, common goals, and (yes) children that come from a long-term relationship.
I have been in passionate love before. And I would not trade my current life with my husband and child for that. I am truly in love with my hubby now, but just because it didn't start out that way doesn't mean a hoot. Maybe it's different for me, but given your goals, I don't think it would be that different.
Thank you! I guess thats the sort of validation that I was hoping to hear more of. There is a great article here (Marry Him! - Magazine - The Atlantic) about a woman who is trying to raise a child on her own and thinks that its better to settle for Mr. Good-enough than to try to go at it alone.
But what is most heartening about your post is that you are now in love. And I believe that you are right--me and this girl have many of the same common goals and interests. I think I would learn to love her--not in the passionate (but transient) way, but in a deeper, longer lasting way. The girls that I have loved passionately, I knew (at least my rational brain knew) that they would not be ideal as a long-term life partner. And none of those relationships worked out for various reasons. So maybe now its time to do this. To try this. And to eventually fall in love, instead of be swept off my feet love.
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