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" Because I think an hour's wait at the tunnel sucks? Because it's kind of nice to have the same base salary but bring home almost a thousand more a month after taxes? I have no idea how old you are, but you act like a 13-year old. "
The same base salary?
In the 1980s I was looking for a corporate (not wall street) financial analyst job (capital investment and cost analysis, that sort of thing) I was trying to move out of Jacksonville, FL, which I disliked for many reasons. I looked in NYC, Boston, and elsewhere. I found some opportunities in NYC, though none came to fruition before I managed to transfer to baltimore with the firm i was already with. Boston? The nice tech firms had very little to offer, most of them were looking for CPA's for financial jobs. And, from what I can recall, the salaries were distinctly lower than in NYC. Certainly the salaries in NYC were distinctly higher than what I was getting in Jacksonville.
Maybe things have changed, but as far as i can tell in most fields there is a salary premium to live in NY, at least for fields where there is a substantial job market outside NYC. Maybe not enough to offset the COL fully, but still a premium.
Actually had he made reasonable statements, my statements would have been reasonable as well. The op did not just say "NYC didn't offer much for middle class people"..he said it is not a place for "normal" people...what the heck is that? There are no middle class areas left? Really? What is the draw in NYC that you can't get elsewhere? Are you kidding! And I responded in an equally ludicrous way..but somehow you are ignoring his ridiculous comments and complaining about mine? Ok.
You are welcome to provide pros and cons of each...I welcome that. But what this op did was make dumb statements under the guise that he has pulled back the curtain on NYC and revealed the truth. Right.
I agree that Boston is better for some people...enjoy it. But why then claim there are no middle class neighborhoods left in NYC? No normal people can live here? What's the draw that you can't get anywhere else? All completely false and ridiculous statements, which has nothing to do with why Boston is great.
What's the purpose of this thread, live in Boston, who cares.
Seriously !
Especially when then initial post is full of stuff that isnt even true. Sounds like someone who just wants a boston v New York which city is better battle...
"The major publicly-traded biopharma companies include Bristol Myers Squibb, Eyetech Pharmaceuticals, ImClone Systems, OSI Pharmaceuticals, Pfizer, Regeneron, CuraGen, and Alexion Pharmaceuticals . Pfizer shifted 1,000 jobs to New York City from New Jersey, Missouri, Michigan and California in 2003. According to the Partnership for New York City, New York institutions create more biotechnology-related patents than any other metropolitan area in the United States, including New Haven, home of Yale University's medical research complex, which produces the greatest per capita output."
and
"In 2006 Google moved into 311,000 square feet (28,900 m2) of office space in the second-largest building in New York City, at 111 Eighth Avenue in Manhattan. The location is one of the most important "telecom hotels" in the world, a giant networking facility adjacent to the Hudson Street/Ninth Avenue fiber highway, one of the most critical Internet arteries in the world. Employing more than 500 people, it is Google's largest engineering complex outside of company headquarters. Google products engineered in the New York offices include Maps, Spreadsheets, Checkout, Blog search, and Mobile search. Google's large investment in its New York operations has led to speculation about new multimedia initiatives by the company"
After much research and initially being very "gung-ho" about the idea I've decided NYC isn't for me. I live close enough by(Boston) to have been to the City a lot and more or less know what is about. so for all you Mid-Westerns wanting to come to NYC don't! Here's why:
1. Unless you are rich and I mean like lawyer/doctor/stock brocker or better you aren't going to have the quality of life you could expect in nearly any other major US city, including my hometown.
2. NYC is a city for the super rich and for new immigrates who want to live around similar. If you are a working or middle-class third,fourth, whatever generation American you don't really have a place you could fit in besides fringe areas of Brooklyn and Queens.
3. What is the draw of living in NYC that you can't get elsewhere? for most kids it seems it more about being able to show off there address be it: the Village, Park Slope, UES, Williamsburg, where-ever back home. Sure there is great entertainment and museums but do most normal people really go to the museum so much that living close by the best is a necessity? You can get a very similar urban lifestyle with a much better overall quality of life in other cities, notably SF and Boston.
4. There are few upper-middle class jobs in NYC outside of the few core industries like finance and creative professions. Besides that most jobs seem to be low-pay service sector positions to feed the rich's greedy desires for quirky shops and boutiques.
5.Outside of Manhattan and Brownstone Brooklyn NYC, especially the vast sprawl of Queen and Southern Brooklyn, have some of the ugliest architecture I've ever seen.
6. NYC is pretty dirty compared to Boston. Not sure how it compares to other major cities in that regard.
This stuff is basically a distillation of my person experience along with what I've learned from researching it. I tried to find a neighborhood where I thought I could fit in the city but it doesn't seem to exist. Normal people don't belong in NYC anymore its all about the rich and there throngs of servants. Even a city that is claimed to just as if not more expensive as NYC as SF still has room for normal people. It really seems like this is a dark time for your City but in a much different way than in the 70s and 80s.
I think I'll be more than happy to visit the Urban Disneyland a few times a year and stay up here in a city, while not perfect, still has room for middle class people.
It's a shame because there are few other true urban cities left in this country and those of us who like the idea of walking lots of places and not having to own a car are nearly running out of luck. So much for being green when you can't even live in the country without having to own an expensive and wasteful car.
starfox,get a grip.There is no reasoning or logic to your post unless your ego is totally out of control.How did you get from I want to live in NY but can't afford to live a neighborhood I want to "no midwesterners or normal people should think about living in NY.That is what you sound like. Do you really think that you are the everyman whose experience applies to everyone ? LOl
In one sentence NY is an "urban disneyland" and in the next it is "one of the true urban cities in the country". Which is it because it can't be both.
As one who was born and raised in Boston and who would never think of moving back there I am here to tell you that your research and your logic is flawed except maybe for yourself.
I am a school teacher,as middle class as you can get and I am quite happy with my life here in NY.How can you say there is no place for the middle class in NY when there are more happy middle class people in NYC than the entire population of Boston?
Your post is filled with inaccuracies and misconceptions about both Boston and NY.Are you a native Bostonian or a transplant ? How could you not know that most of Boston was annexed in an attempt to grow the city? East Boston,South Boston,Roxbury,Roslindale,Hyde Park,Jamaica Plain,West Roxbury,Dorchester and Charlestown were all annexed.That's about 80% of the current city.
Why is Hoboken any different from Cambridge? It's across a river and connected to the city by a subway ?How can you say that Boston "has nothing like NJ/" I don't see the difference at all.
Most of the tech jobs in Boston aren't in Boston or Cambridge,They are out on 128 in Waltham,Burlington,etc.How is that different from NY tech jobs being in NJ ?
Oh,and the architecture.Do you even know what the predominant form of architecture throughout the Boston area is... in East Boston,South Boston,Hyde Park,Dorchester,Forest Hills, Slummerville,Cambridge, Chelsea,etc?The real neighborhoods of the city ?
The fact is that except for the brownstone neighborhoods of Beacon Hill,Back Bay,South End and parts of Roxbury Boston is a city of absolutely hideously ugly triple deckers.Don't you realize that the triple decker is the dominant form of architecture of the city ?
Sorry,I really do love my home town of Boston but just because you have decided that you can't hack NY don't try to put it down by making up crap to convince yourself.
Actually the heart of what I am saying is infact that NYC offers not much for the middle class. I realize saying there is no middle class areas is a bit hyperbolic but I didn't say. However those that exist seem to be shrinking.
The part of the NYC lure I don't get is really the simple fact that quality of life for the average middle-class American who decided to move to NYC would be lower than any other major urban city in the nation. Is there really much denying that? Unless you are in one of these highly specialized fields that NYC is great for you don't really have much of the legendary "opportunity" you keep talking about.
You don't have to convince me. I know the place inside out. Ditmas Park, Bay Ridge, Sunnyside Gardens, Forest Hills, Jamaica Estates, Todt Hill, Fieldston, there are plenty of places all over NYC that are very attractive. Plenty of other neighborhoods have their charm, even the ones that might look kind of ugly at first glance. And outside city limits as well.
But Victorian Flatbush is expensive and far from many people's jobs. From one of those Victorians to my old office in Midtown takes almost an hour. And they'll run you over a million, and you've got to navigate NYC schools or pay for private school. I looked everywhere it's possible to look and found that it's far easier to get a decent-sized, attractive place with good schools within 30 mins of downtown Boston than 30 minutes of midtown Manhattan.
Sobro, that's the point I'm trying to make. Starfox might have made some categorical statements, but the point holds that it's easier for middle class people in other cities. Obviously "normal" people live in NYC.
"The part of the NYC lure I don't get is really the simple fact that quality of life for the average middle-class American who decided to move to NYC would be lower than any other major urban city in the nation."
without looking at a specific family and its actual salary offers in two different cities, I dont know how you can say that. yes, NYC has a higher COL than anywhere else (though if we were to do a detaled comparison to SF, I am not sure) But it A. has many unique economic opportunities, and not just Wall Street B. In totally generic jobs, it usually pays more than other cities, though how much more varies.
That results in most (but not all) having to make do with less space or a longer commute. (thats offset to some degree by the fact that living in less space is more socially acceptable there than elsewhere) But not necessarily THAT much less space, or THAT much longer a commute. And there ARE many cultural and other offsets of all kinds.
If you have NO ties to the city, are not Jewish, don't have much interest in the cultural stuff it has to offer you can PROBABLY get a better deal elsewhere, though even that depends on many uncertain things in the job market.
My kid is interested in architecture, so I have investigated the current job market in that field. Its not just that typically starting salaries are higher in NY than elsewhere - in that field right now about 90% of all the vacancies in the USA are in NYC. Arch hiring is DEAD, EXCEPT in the NY market, where its picking up.
Starfox, I can agree with that statement. For the AVG middle class person, NYC does not give you the same bang for the buck as other places. But it really hasn't been the greatest place to be for the AVG middle class person pretty much ever...which is why so many people leave and ultimately seek greener pastures and populated the rest of the country (and continue to do so). So what exactly? NYC is a very unique place, and not for everyone. If you want a more AVG middle class/middle America existance of 3,000 sf homes for $250,000, where everyone is just like you, with decent schools, malls galore, and driving miles for a quart of milk, you won't get that in NYC. And that's ok...no need to fault NYC for that. Go be happy in Boston without making false/sarcastic statements about NYC.
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