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If someone has $1500 to spend on a one bedroom and has safety as a concern and wants to be 3 subway stops from midtown, I can see them choosing Jackson Heights over Harlem.
Some people are willing to sacrifice safety just to live in Manhattan.
Queens or The Bronx is a much better choice, but apparently Manhattan is ALL safe and nice.
I used the L train line as just ONE example, not the ONLY example. The 7 train line has always had problems. Lots of delays, stop and start service and it covers many different neighborhoods. The R and M train, are also shoddy when it comes to train service and especially on weekends.
Jackson Heights and Woodside Queens are pretty good areas but in cost are about the same as Harlem. A studio-one bed in those areas run about $1500 per month. That is not any more affordable than Harlem and you can get multiple train and bus lines that service all of Manhattan.
It's just a matter of what a person is looking for. As a Manhattan person, I want more convenience, cultural attractions, parks and transportation. Many people who prefer Queens, BK and parts of the BX, want more quiet, parks and can deal with less convenience and transportation. That isn't for every one.
I would throw in safety there, too. The neighborhoods you mentioned in Queens are mainly safe, family-oriented areas.
If someone has $1500 to spend on a one bedroom and has safety as a concern and wants to be 3 subway stops from midtown, I can see them choosing Jackson Heights over Harlem.
Today 09:25 PM
IMO only certain areas of the Bronx are safer than Harlem, those areas have been named in the Bronx threads, the rest may actually be worse.
Some people are willing to sacrifice safety just to live in Manhattan.
Queens or The Bronx is a much better choice, but apparently Manhattan is ALL safe and nice.
This is unnecessary. Newbies usually only know about Manhattan, and they try to live there, or as close as possible. Once they learn about the rest of the city, and they will if they are really here to stay. Then they branch out.
Don't worry about the truly rich, they are not going to live in Harlem if they can afford Brooklyn Heights.
I used the L train line as just ONE example, not the ONLY example. The 7 train line has always had problems. Lots of delays, stop and start service and it covers many different neighborhoods. The R and M train, are also shoddy when it comes to train service and especially on weekends.
The #7 line has the best record in the system, from what I understand. I ride it 5 days a week and there are rarely problems. When there are, I can go downstairs and take the E, F or the Q32 bus. I rarely ride the R or M but when I have I didn't find them shoddy at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalove
Jackson Heights and Woodside Queens are pretty good areas but in cost are about the same as Harlem. A studio-one bed in those areas run about $1500 per month. That is not any more affordable than Harlem and you can get multiple train and bus lines that service all of Manhattan.
I live in the most expensive section of JH. I looked in Harlem and could not afford a comparable place. Woodside and Sunnyside are closer to Manhattan than JH but they don't have the multiple transit options that we have in JH, which may factor into the lower cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalove
It's just a matter of what a person is looking for. As a Manhattan person, I want more convenience, cultural attractions, parks and transportation. Many people who prefer Queens, BK and parts of the BX, want more quiet, parks and can deal with less convenience and transportation. That isn't for every one.
I have convenience, access to cultural attractions (very important to me), parks and transportation. I can hop on the BQE and get to a number of places, including Harlem, in 15 min by car, or take the subway or bus and be downtown as fast as someone in Harlem. Plus, I can catch the bus two blocks away and be at LGA in no time. For me, the level of safety that I have is more important than anything and I think JH is superior to Harlem from a safety perspective.
Harlem meets many needs for a person who can't afford downtown but so does JH. Let's call it a draw.
The 7 train line has always had problems. Lots of delays, stop and start service and it covers many different neighborhoods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl
The #7 line has the best record in the system, from what I understand. I ride it 5 days a week and there are rarely problems.
SOURCING MY STATEMENT:
The best subway line in the city is the 7 with a “MetroCard Rating†of $1.55.* The 7 ranked highest because it performs above average on five measures: frequency of scheduled service, regularity of service, delays caused by mechanical breakdowns, seat availability and fewer dirty cars.
*State of the Subways Report Card - Summer 2009
I recognize your source for the 7 line, but I definitely do not agree with that source. There are always problems with that line. Always. And they've done so much work on it in the past two years to make it better, but had to cut service on weekends etc. just to be able to do it. Not to mention the issues I see on the traffic report weekly with the 7 line. Agree to disagree there.
As for the draw. I respect your opinion and concern for safety. You posted a question regarding why people would want to live in Harlem over the outer-boroughs and I along with other posters simply answered it.
Again as for safety, you cannot say that all of Harlem is unsafe. You've pointed out some of the most unsafe areas of Harlem and are using their statistics as an overall reflection of Harlem's safety. And this simply is not accurate and unfair. There are many sections of Harlem that are as safe as Woodside and other parts of Queens. (Hamilton Heights and Morningside Heights to name just two areas of Harlem.)
And as for transportation, by train especially, you can get to midtown in 10-15 minutes from Harlem. Not especially do-able from most parts of Queens. It's also more walkable in Manhattan, period, no matter the neighborhood.
To The Boros-I did the research myself online and saw that listings in price were comparable to Harlem. It isn't cheaper than Harlem, and in some instances were more expensive. Granted, you may get more for your money in terms of apartment size and local greenery (some would even say security), but for those who prefer Manhattan, it may not be enough to get them to choose Queens over Manhattan.
I recognize your source for the 7 line, but I definitely do not agree with that source. There are always problems with that line. Always. And they've done so much work on it in the past two years to make it better, but had to cut service on weekends etc. just to be able to do it. Not to mention the issues I see on the traffic report weekly with the 7 line. Agree to disagree there.
As a daily rider of the #7, I find the service to be excellent. The track work you mention was an inconvenience but it was completed ahead of schedule. Having multiple train lines available when the 7 wasn't running minimized the inconvenience.
If there's a more reliable/valid source that rates the subway lines, please share. I found the methodology used in this report to be comprehensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalove
As for the draw. I respect your opinion and concern for safety. You posted a question regarding why people would want to live in Harlem over the outer-boroughs and I along with other posters simply answered it. Again as for safety, you cannot say that all of Harlem is unsafe.
No, I posted an article about an incident in Harlem that caused me to pause about its relative safety. I offered it as a warning to people who may be considering Harlem and don't know this. I never said that ALL of Harlem is unsafe. Reread my OP. I stated clearly that these situations are not jumping off in every Harlem neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalove
And as for transportation, by train especially, you can get to midtown in 10-15 minutes from Harlem. Not especially do-able from most parts of Queens. It's also more walkable in Manhattan, period, no matter the neighborhood.
I have lived all over Queens and am quite familiar with its transportation challenges. However, the neighborhoods along the #7 (LIC, Sunnyside, Elmhurst, Woodside & Jackson Heights) offer commutes that are between 20 and 5 minutes to midtown. I think that's good for people to know.
You are right that Manhattan is walkable. I didn't mention that Queens is bike-friendly, which is important to some people. I ride to work quite often.
The whole point of my OP was to inform people. If Harlem is for you, that's great. I enjoy Harlem too. But if you're choosing Harlem (or any other place) because it's a "cheaper" alternative, and if safety is a factor in your decision-making process, I'm simply offering some other options.
No, I posted an article about an incident in Harlem that caused me to pause about its relative safety. I offered it as a warning to people who may be considering Harlem and don't know this. I never said that ALL of Harlem is unsafe. Reread my OP. I stated clearly that these situations are not jumping off in every Harlem neighborhood.
The whole point of my OP was to inform people. If Harlem is for you, that's great. I enjoy Harlem too. But if you're choosing Harlem (or any other place) because it's a "cheaper" alternative, and if safety is a factor in your decision-making process, I'm simply offering some other options.
This was not the tone of your original post. You pulled out a recent news story and posted it as though it was reflective of the entire neighborhood and as though you could not understand why people would choose to live in Harlem.
In fact in a subsequent post in this thread you remarked that to your overall feeling about Harlem was that it was not a neighborhood that you would live in and that you did not find it safe at all.
So the responses that you are getting from Harlemites such as myself are in regards to these postings.
As for Queens, I have family members who live there and love it and I visit them pretty often. However, I would never say that I know Queens more than a native so I don't post about it trying to put the whole boro down. Instead, if people ask to compare Queens nabes to Manhattan nabes, I will as a Manhattanite, point out the differences between the two.
As for the transportation, I'll take your word for it. I admit that I'm a little bit spoiled, having access to seven subway lines all within walking distance. Most Harlem people have a choice of 3 or 4 on average.
No one is disputing that Queens isn't a great borough. However, if you wanted to point out the greatness that is Queens, it would have been received better had you started a thread about Queens instead of a thread attacking Harlem. That is all.
This was not the tone of your original post. You pulled out a recent news story and posted it as though it was reflective of the entire neighborhood and as though you could not understand why people would choose to live in Harlem.
In fact in a subsequent post in this thread you remarked that to your overall feeling about Harlem was that it was not a neighborhood that you would live in and that you did not find it safe at all.
So the responses that you are getting from Harlemites such as myself are in regards to these postings.
As for Queens, I have family members who live there and love it and I visit them pretty often. However, I would never say that I know Queens more than a native so I don't post about it trying to put the whole boro down. Instead, if people ask to compare Queens nabes to Manhattan nabes, I will as a Manhattanite, point out the differences between the two.
As for the transportation, I'll take your word for it. I admit that I'm a little bit spoiled, having access to seven subway lines all within walking distance. Most Harlem people have a choice of 3 or 4 on average.
No one is disputing that Queens isn't a great borough. However, if you wanted to point out the greatness that is Queens, it would have been received better had you started a thread about Queens instead of a thread attacking Harlem. That is all.
Yes, I used some sensationalism to make my original point. When the story broke, someone on another site commented ,"Welcome to the Jungle" and it conjured up my memory of the song. My intent was not to attack or trash Harlem. I hope you can accept my word that it was not my intent to offend, but to inform. Nevertheless, while you aren't disputing that Queens is a viable alternative, many other posters do, and without anything but their opinion to back them up.
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