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Old 08-12-2010, 08:56 PM
 
Location: The Bronx but from The Height$
45 posts, read 99,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
I understand your sentiments, but things change and as a former "mecca", it will have it's vestiges and it won't be like no trace of the history will remain...the Apollo Theatre is a protected historic landmark, for example.

Or I'll put it another way....back in the day, the Lower East Side was a "Jewish mecca"......Jews lived there long before moving on to Brooklyn, Forest Hills and the Grand Concourse (and later moving on from there to Long Island, Scarsdale, etc.), yet even though it is pretty much a Latino nabe and has been for decades now, Katz's Delicatessen, Schapiro Wines and Sammy's Romanian Steakhouse, amongst other things, still remain and thrive.
Let me put it this way, whats a black mecca if there are no black people?
It would be inaccurate of calling the L.E.S. a Jewish mecca if its all non-jews, right? Sadly, times change, Harlem will be a very different place soon.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:58 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,145,106 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
what double standards, i don't mind whte people or any one that is law abiding moving to harlem. you guys are always bashing people from groups other than your own. you guys have made this forum very ugly since you starting posting all your rants. but people should see that your type exist here in nyc.
He was refering to the person who typed that harlem was the black meca and that they didnt want it not to be majority black anymore. Which is a double standard because if a white person said that it would of been called racist.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
4,454 posts, read 5,184,939 times
Reputation: 3079
Seems we have gotten a little off-topic here.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:36 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,145,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Seems we have gotten a little off-topic here.
Since this is your first post on this thread who are you to say what is and what is not on topic.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:45 PM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,872,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
If you dont like wiki try this source.
History of Harlem, harlem history!

Harlem was home to jews, irish, dutch and other europeans before it became the home to blacks. In fact during the 1900s there was a estate bust and whites started leaving harlem which was when blacks started moving into it.
this article is a brief synopsis of harlem history. the dutch had slaves. there are still black people in nyc that descend from these dutch owned slaves. they still have dutch last names, and their ancestors are buried here. the articls doesn't go into the plantation slave owning families when harlem was rural. it doesn't go in detail about the free blacks that remained as servants, farmers, and occupations like black smithing. there weren't many blacks, but there were enough that it cannot be disputed that they were there.

you are starting at the point in history when blacks lived in mostly 2 areas of manhattan that was parts of lower manhattan, and the area from w. 52nd st to lincoln center. harlem at that time had wealthy whites that lived in brownstones, and other mansions, and estates, and poor people that lived in shanties. there were no tenements uptown at this point. there was a plan put in place to move the black people out of the lincoln center area.

tenements were built that had both hot and cold running water, this lured many black people uptown out of the cold water flats downtown. it also lured other poor whites uptown at the same time. the rich whites did leave, but in the section of marcus garvey park aka mt morris park the wealthy whites boarded up the brownstones rather than sell to blacks. these remained boarded up until recent times. like 30 years ago. until this time that the tenements were built much of harlem was still rural and undeveloped, just like much of the bronx.

washington heights and the south bronx has a similar history. basically what has happened is everyone has been together for a long time. harlem doesn't belong to one group. but for a long time in recent memory it has been known as a black and latin area. most other people had no desire to be there any more.

it is no use for all of this fighting against each other, when historically all people have been here almost forever now. no group can really claim anything. i just don't like the lets just push all black people out of this city attitude i'm picking up from some of these post i'm reading, and black people have been here all along, and i doubt very much you will ever have an all white city, or an all rich city, or even an all white and rich manhattan. it is all wishful thinking on the part of some.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/BK
1,268 posts, read 2,566,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post

tenements were built that had both hot and cold running water, this lured many black people uptown out of the cold water flats downtown. it also lured other poor whites uptown at the same time. the rich whites did leave, but in the section of marcus garvey park aka mt morris park the wealthy whites boarded up the brownstones rather than sell to blacks.
Now that is very interesting cause you would think every boarded/abandoned building was the result of the 70s devastation but this is more evidence that half of the time neighborhoods that were/are rundown wasn't the doing of lower income people. It was those who were wealthier that didn't want the newcomers to inherit any kind of luxury in their area.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Bronx
16,200 posts, read 23,103,400 times
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Did you guys know during the civil war era parts of midown manhattan etnically black. During the draft riots many blacks were targeted and after the riots died with the deaths of hundreds of black, irish. And white civilains along with cops and soldiers. With the fires burned out and the ashes settled a dark period in our cities history was over. Many blacks left the cit because of the the draft riots. A black orphanage near 33 street had burned down and later relocated to harlem during the civil war period marking the begining of harlem slowly turning black. Before the jews who currently domiante the wealth of the city, during the 19th century much of the wealthy was anglo and dutch descent and they gave donations to help rebuild the orphanage in harlem. This is what I read from an excerpt about draft riots back in high school. There is also a video on youtube about this.

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 08-12-2010 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:03 PM
 
34,180 posts, read 47,478,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
Apparently you haven't read my previous post on other threads I've done on this board but I'm Ecuadorian!!! (Latino). And despite me being latino, I do recognize the fact that when white people move into the ghetto, the area gets revitalized and beautified. Also, despite me being a latino or a minority, I do recognize that when you have a predominately black or latino neighborhood, the neighborhood will NOT look as nice because the blacks and latino mess it up themselves. I.e. graffiti, hanging out, drug dealing, etc.
victorfox, i actually respect your love for the bronx and i too one day hope that it will be fully restored to its grandeur. but please dont make this a color issue, as its about money. it doesnt matter who moves into the hood and gentrifies it. its about if they have money or not. and i have told you this before on several posts. i really dislike that you say it takes white people to beautify a ghetto. its not color its socioeconomic status. race has nothing to do with the beautification of a neighborhood.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:05 PM
 
34,180 posts, read 47,478,853 times
Reputation: 14309
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
I understand your sentiments, but things change and as a former "mecca", it will have it's vestiges and it won't be like no trace of the history will remain...the Apollo Theatre is a protected historic landmark, for example.

Or I'll put it another way....back in the day, the Lower East Side was a "Jewish mecca"......Jews lived there long before moving on to Brooklyn, Forest Hills and the Grand Concourse (and later moving on from there to Long Island, Scarsdale, etc.), yet even though it is pretty much a Latino nabe and has been for decades now, Katz's Delicatessen, Schapiro Wines and Sammy's Romanian Steakhouse, amongst other things, still remain and thrive.
thats a delicate topic right there because the difference between the lower east side and harlem is that the jewish left LES by choice. they were not getting priced out of LES in the 1900s. i dont think hipsters and luxury condos existed back then.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/BK
1,268 posts, read 2,566,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
thats a delicate topic right there because the difference between the lower east side and harlem is that the jewish left LES by choice. they were not getting priced out of LES in the 1900s. i dont think hipsters and luxury condos existed back then.
YES!!! Others, including myself, have pointed this out many times for other neighborhoods but it seems to always be overlooked. Best comparison: Bensonhurst changes vs. LES orHarlem changes- is anyone really going to say that they're identical and they're changing just because NYC hoods change all the time? For the former neighborhood, yes, but LES or Harlem: not at all.
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